Oh Look, Valve are dickheads, part Infinity

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LostForm написал:

I wonder if it was steam's ideas to sell mods or was it the publishers or the modders. Steam workshop is a very good mod platform, compare it to something like playwithsix for dayz on arma 2. It is a laughable comparison, and deserves to be lauded. It is a industry changing platform, not a monopoly, just currently better than any other options. Nexus is a pretty good mod platform as well, not knocking them, just not as expansive and connected as steam currently is (steam encourages or develops the hooks for the steamworkshop).

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Actually Nexus is an excellent mod platform. Much better than Steam workshop, which is known for screwing the load order and breaking your game. These are MODDER'S words, not mine.

Other than that, a modder also put it well. He said something in the lines of "it's like selling Harry Potter fanfiction". Fan fiction usually does not go commercial, and when it does, well we saw the results:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifty_Shades_of_Grey

nexus does a wonderful job of supporting the mod community, i agree, and tried to relate that by saying they are pretty good, i meant excellent. my point was that steam very much stream lines from wanting a game to playing it modded, where nexus is still a third party that needs to be sought out by people (not a bad thing, just not as much exposure for modder's work compareably).

and my point is that monetizing the mods for both the creators of the mod and the publishers of the games being modded may allow (really must allow to stay viable) more varied and functionally more extensive mods to be created. many really good mod ideas get shot down for going to far, while if the publishers are still getting dividends for functionality changes to their games it will hopefully allow them to go forward. Also the modders can have confidence they can get lunch next week while pouring their work into such large projects.

(hopefully nobody is buying 'reskin' mods and encourage more indepth for profit mods).

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Poutsos написал:

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LostForm написал:

I wonder if it was steam's ideas to sell mods or was it the publishers or the modders. Steam workshop is a very good mod platform, compare it to something like playwithsix for dayz on arma 2. It is a laughable comparison, and deserves to be lauded. It is a industry changing platform, not a monopoly, just currently better than any other options. Nexus is a pretty good mod platform as well, not knocking them, just not as expansive and connected as steam currently is (steam encourages or develops the hooks for the steamworkshop).

A

Actually Nexus is an excellent mod platform. Much better than Steam workshop, which is known for screwing the load order and breaking your game. These are MODDER'S words, not mine.

Other than that, a modder also put it well. He said something in the lines of "it's like selling Harry Potter fanfiction". Fan fiction usually does not go commercial, and when it does, well we saw the results:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifty_Shades_of_Grey

Okay. You force me to write something i never wanted to write ;)
You are taking a book that was sold more than 100 million times to make an example for how things can go wrong?

And PLEASE, don't get me wrong: FsoG is the worst shit anyone has ever written. But it was sold more than 100 MILLION times. That's not too bad i would say.
And to be honest: Everything is kind of fan fiction. Every fantasy novel is fan fiction of fantasy that has already been written. Every science-fiction is based on other science fiction in some kind of way. It is not like Star Wars did something new storywise ;)

Why don't we wait and look what it brings? Maybe Valve destroys the world by implementing payed mod-content. Maybe they save it. Or maybe something totally different happens. Money means competition. Money means more serious business. Something, btw. that some mods and modders do lack. I wonder how many mods would have been done to the end when the modders would have known that they will earn money by doing so? There were so many mods out there that sounded great and never got finished.

Oh look! A propaganda-poster! It MUST be serious

Ah, the Modpocalypse, Moddergate...

Some additional thoughts:

Valve and Bethesda, as profit-driven companies are wont to do, sought a new revenue stream, and did a terrible job of it. Why? Well, more money is always a good thing (no matter who you are), but also because it appears that they are laying the groundwork for a new relationship paradigm for FO4 and TESVI. I've never used the CK, but I have heard it noted that the TOU stipulates certain rights to Bethesda vis a vis anything a mod author uses it to make. I suspect that Beth intends to formalize the relationship a bit more, and, in order to do so, has dangled money in front of the creative folks who have enhanced their games for so long.

The new term I've been seeing is "User Generated Content," which can also be thought of as "Third Party DLC." By blurring the lines between mod authors and actual Bethesda staff, Beth may gain more control of the resulting products. After all, within the modding community, authors have often shared elements of their works with one another with no requirements save a little credit. However, should Bethesda have then released an official DLC using some of those assets, the uproar would have dwarfed the current one. I am only speculating, but this is one possible reason for this move. After all, wouldn't a new FO or TES game be a MUCH more desirable product if it had, say, SkyUI or MCM right out of the gate, and available on consoles, at that?

As for the cut Valve is offering, it's 25% author / 40% Beth / 35% Valve, UNLESS the author selling the mod wishes to select a "Steam Service Provider," such as the Nexus, to receive 5% out of Valve's cut, no strings attached. Not much for the author, I know, but it's up to them to accept the deal, or not, along with the proviso that, once uploaded, they can NEVER remove their mod from the Workshop.

Plenty of mod authors have taken a strong, ethical stance against involvement in this arrangement, but those who have accepted it aren't being unethical; they're simply seeking compensation for what can amount to MANY hours of hard work. Some have already backed away from it, such as they are able, while others have balked not at the terms, but the inevitable complications arising from entangled mod assets and credit.

It's a mess, and I think Valve knows it. A reddit post from Gabe Newell indicates that, in the first few days, about $US10K dollars were made from mod sales, but at a cost of something like $US1MILLION in additional customer service, and he expressed a desire to find solutions to all the issues, with input from the customers.

My biggest concerns are the theft and posting for sale of mods by those who did not create them, and the migration of authors to Steam, away from the Nexus. The Nexus is by no means perfect, but it's far and away the superior option, and the only place I am comfortable getting mods. Fortunately, there appears to be a new appreciation for mod authors in that community, and donations appear, for now, at least, to be on the rise. It's as much as anything a way to show appreciation and support for what we have been so generously given to enjoy, for free, above and beyond the "Endorse" button.

Finally, please, let's not abuse those who have, for whatever reason, chosen to participate in Valve's little experiment. Name calling, accusations and imprecations, and, especially, death threats are unworthy of all of us. Some authors have gone into hiding, pulling their mods and taking a hiatus, simply after being heaped with abuse and threats. Let's be better than that.

Support your favorite modders! =^[.]^=

Amen.

Hopefully this will bring about the destruction of the industry, which has been coming for a few years now, so it can go through the symptoms of its eventual re-birth. Like the mid 80s. Needs to happen at this point.

If I was religious, a better life through rebirth - and through death, as a prerequisite - would probably be my central tenet. I'd probably join the League of Shadows if I was a character in Arrow. (I'm not saying I would unquestioningly follow unethical authority, just that I'd like to subscribe to their newsletter.)

As such, I'd be lying if I said the prospect of the games industry dying wasn't a bit sexy.

But I feel Valve lives up to that with their recent actions. They've destroyed the modding status quo. Good. Modders deserved more than they had sense to ask for.

If they had done it on purpose rather than some inane greed-filled blunder, I might even applaud them.

Or perhaps "greed-filled blunder" is just what the League wants you to think.

Are they listening to us now?

I really do think the industry is on a course with a major upheaval. The proliferation of mobile games. People realizing microtransactions are rather pointless. Everything Valve does. Consoles hitting a near peak of available tech. Exlusives being non-existant. Gaming press completely dead. Twitch now allowing "reviewers" to be purchased - for a few bucks or some worthless swag. Kickstarter/early Access being the scam it is. DLC getting worse while charging more.

Fuck I honestly have like 10 more things in my head. Its too much. I really believe it is coming. I hope it is magnificent...but not so magnificent it goes away forever.

They are many forms of entertainment now and more coming out every day. Games can be destroyed through competition or just revert back to gamers being the traditional social misfits - cool kid seperation.

we'll see.