[Balance] Unconditional/Permanent Fortify and why i think it is bad for the game in the long run

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Snowflake85 написал:

I don't understand how Perma-Fortify is a problem at all.

The problem is, this is Path Of One-shots.

Even with:
10k Hp
90% Physical Reduction
80-85% Elemental Reduction
27% All Damage Reduction from Fortify

You can and will still occasionally be instantly killed.

No. Nothing in the game is capable of doing 10k pure physical damage outside of like a Vaal Smash with crit mods.

With that amount of physical reduction and mitigation you can survive up to two 10k hits before being killed with only 7k HP.

Edit - Double post

Pretty much agree 100% with @Astarte911


Look in SC where people don't care about deaths as much, they aren't selecting champion nearly as much as HC players. Its no surprise that people want to benefit from the unconditional fortify. You get the option to lose out on all of the ranger benefits if you want to use it, to me this is a fair tradeoff.

If you select champion you lose out on the gladiator class benefits, while not really applicable to 2 hander, still is a solid class. Slayer would be better with some pathing changes, the overleech is pretty insane.

Beserker is obviously good, jug has been getting some praise personally I dont see a need for it. Chieftain really isn't a melee class IMO.

The thing is they all have tradeoffs, its funny to me how people pre patch were saying why would you ever go champion, you can get fortify in other ways. Some people just want to play the game and not play the mini buff game.



As for the person that said even the scions fortify is conditional on melee hits, of course it is, the scion is designed to BE DIFFERENT. If it granted it on any hits then its better then the champion class. Depending on how it was worded it could potentially grant fortify on spell hits, clearly that isn't something they want, considering the scion is in a tree location that isn't really a cost for spell casters, if people want to start as a spell caster duelist, then I guess more power to them.



I also wonder how many people in this thread even play HC.....

While i won't argue that perma fortify is not very strong thing, let's not pretend that other classes don't have ridiculous things, i mean just to mention Necromancer is enough, 35% block and spell block chance + stronger Aegis, with out any need in build to get design around it and only need to take under 1 sec (bonus cast time speed) to pop some corpses or in worst case use Desecrate from time to time, what else to say..

Nah, perma fortify is just fine as a concept. What would be interesting (to me at least) would be if it were in a marauder subclass rather than a duelist class. Marauder is even further away from nodes that help ranged/crit characters, so it would be a larger trade-off. Would people still go for Marauder for their crit bow builds and projectile spell builds? I'd like to see that :P

That said, the current implementation is just fine. It's a strong buff, sure, but I just think that some other subclasses need a buff to compensate. Ranger could use some more defensive nodes in her subclasses for sure.

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Maswasnos написал:

Nah, perma fortify is just fine as a concept. What would be interesting (to me at least) would be if it were in a marauder subclass rather than a duelist class. Marauder is even further away from nodes that help ranged/crit characters, so it would be a larger trade-off. Would people still go for Marauder for their crit bow builds and projectile spell builds? I'd like to see that :P

That said, the current implementation is just fine. It's a strong buff, sure, but I just think that some other subclasses need a buff to compensate. Ranger could use some more defensive nodes in her subclasses for sure.

The thing is what would you swap with marauder to move it there? Jugg is a marauder class all together, chieftain obviously is and beserker is a bit generic I guess it would be the one swapped.

But moving champion over there just enables caster style builds (more easily that is) to take advantage of fortify. No matter where it is it, it still will be desired by some, which is perfectly fine. The scion is desired by some to mix and match. The gladiator is for max block for free conversion without forcing specific uniques, the deadeye gives great damage to ranged characters, ect.


IMO slayer would be able to compete much easier if its pathing wasn't as bad. Its really simple things that can go a long way without forcing the conditional effect onto it, which literally ruins the class IMO.

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Tin_Foil_Hat написал:

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Snowflake85 написал:

I don't understand how Perma-Fortify is a problem at all.

The problem is, this is Path Of One-shots.

Even with:
10k Hp
90% Physical Reduction
80-85% Elemental Reduction
27% All Damage Reduction from Fortify

You can and will still occasionally be instantly killed.

No. Nothing in the game is capable of doing 10k pure physical damage outside of like a Vaal Smash with crit mods.

With that amount of physical reduction and mitigation you can survive up to two 10k hits before being killed with only 7k HP.

Some lag when you kill a big pack of stormbearers and you cant leave the area in time. Maybe the map has even -res or reduced recovery.

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goetzjam написал:

Pretty much agree 100% with @Astarte911

Look in SC where people don't care about deaths as much, they aren't selecting champion nearly as much as HC players. Its no surprise that people want to benefit from the unconditional fortify. You get the option to lose out on all of the ranger benefits if you want to use it, to me this is a fair tradeoff.

But even in SC, Champion is the second most popular sub-class. And first is Ascendant, the ONLY Scion subclass, that has THREE times more diversity than any other (if not more)! Champion is clearly overpowered, because in SC, players usually dont give a shit about defence, and Champion is defensive subclass.

Or you presume SC players are picking Champion just for his cool icon?

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Serge91 написал:

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Tin_Foil_Hat написал:

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Snowflake85 написал:

I don't understand how Perma-Fortify is a problem at all.

The problem is, this is Path Of One-shots.

Even with:
10k Hp
90% Physical Reduction
80-85% Elemental Reduction
27% All Damage Reduction from Fortify

You can and will still occasionally be instantly killed.

No. Nothing in the game is capable of doing 10k pure physical damage outside of like a Vaal Smash with crit mods.

With that amount of physical reduction and mitigation you can survive up to two 10k hits before being killed with only 7k HP.

Some lag when you kill a big pack of stormbearers and you cant leave the area in time. Maybe the map has even -res or reduced recovery.

Bro, Stormbears = Frost bombs = elemental damage. What part of anything you just said has to do with physical damage and physical mitigations/reductions ? Literally nothing.

Thats not physical damage, thats not one hit. These calculations have been done multiple times before.

To be honest champion was even very hyped, so no wonder there are a lot of them. But if you want to oneshot stuff, well, champion is not really the way to go.