Stopping at 6, Don't Want Your T-Shirt

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F1ghtClub написал:

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Daresso написал:

Qarl, are you implying that OP's character is a weiner.

Doesn't matter if OP's character is a weiner Qarl. Weiner character can pay someone to hide in a corner while someone's else's non-weiner character kills Atziri for him...so weiner character's owner can get shopping T-shirt rag award and no one will know the difference.

I believe Qarl is actually telling the forum that a character with a strong single target ability can kill Atziri. Therefore, having an AoE skill is not necessary to hit the 7th Skull.


- Regarding the weiner comment: I am kidding, sorry.

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rrtson написал:

With other well-designed bosses in this game, you can whittle down their health, bit by bit, so even an undergeared build doing 5k DPS can "win" with sheer player skill, such as clever kiting, strategic hit & runs. With Atziri, it's "hur dur stack as much damage as you possibly can". It doesn't give builds, with lower than X DPS, a chance in hell of ever beating her.

That's what I thought.

Atziri is meant to be a challenge for players, not for characters. As a player part of the challenge is figuring out what character is best to defeat her. The idea that all builds with equally valued gear should all be able to do everything equally is absurd. Characters with different abilities handle things in different ways and with different degrees of difficulty. For it to be otherwise would make all character building decisions meaningless.

My 2h sword blood magic acrobatics witch uses cleave and still can't kill Atziri! Does that mean GGG did a bad job designing Atziri? No. It means that for the gear I have access to my build is too weak to do Atziri. That's all.

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F1ghtClub написал:

Dude, you're not helping GGG at all with this comment. How can you afford to lose 20 exalts per uber run? I've just played for 3 months and seen 6 exalts drop total. Seen 0 mirrors in a year.

Oh, that's right...you trade. Some guy gave you (for example) 120 ex for a legacy Koams in standard. And he was able to do that cause went to the RMT shop and ponied up. But you turn a blind eye and take his fake money anyways, actually believing he played 700,000 game hours himself to farm up those exalts first-hand.

No, sorry man. You're not the one who gets to be disgusted here.

Could you name a reason why completing ALL challenges should not require (ab)using ALL aspects (yeah, trading is one of them) of the game? It's just a fucking t-shirt, relax and enjoy the game.

Also, this argument "Finding 120 exalts from ground takes millions of hours. Therefore everyone who has that or more, RMTd for it." belongs to kindergarten.

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Boem написал:

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It's not about being forced; it's about adaptability. Your build should be something fluid, that you can adjust to the present needs. If you want to avoid all that healing, then simply make the required adjustments to your build. I can't see it being that big of deal.

This would be a correct statement if the game offered an alternative within the same
"play-style".

It does not.

I guess I take a different perspective. I firmly believe that your character should not be allowed to succeed if they are that narrow. (in this case, lacking aoe entirely)


I'd strongly prefer if your character wasn't good enough to even make it out of normal difficulty. (ie adding challenging bosses that required you to swap aoe/single target skills or supports right from the beginning to train people in this kind of playstyle)

With the way the gem system works (and how fluid and dynamic it can easily be) I think they should encourage this kind of stuff. (not "THESE ARE MY GEMS. THEY WILL STAY MY GEMS OR MY CHAR WILL FAIL WITH THEM RATHER THAN SEE DIFFERENT".)


So yeah. Get higher dps and ignore the zombies entirely (it can be done, no idea how affordable it is in game) Or swap out them gems. I have aoe. I pull out LMP for a single target gem every time I fight an Atziri/Uber boss. Why shouldn't you have to?

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Boem написал:

There are no occasions where such a character get's an advantage over an AOE nuke specialist.

You have advantage when you are fighting a single enemy. Once there are multiple, AOE is better.

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jakealmighty написал:

I guess I take a different perspective. I firmly believe that your character should not be allowed to succeed if they are that narrow. (in this case, lacking aoe entirely)


I'd strongly prefer if your character wasn't good enough to even make it out of normal difficulty. (ie adding challenging bosses that required you to swap aoe/single target skills or supports right from the beginning to train people in this kind of playstyle)

With the way the gem system works (and how fluid and dynamic it can easily be) I think they should encourage this kind of stuff. (not "THESE ARE MY GEMS. THEY WILL STAY MY GEMS OR MY CHAR WILL FAIL WITH THEM RATHER THAN SEE DIFFERENT".)


So yeah. Get higher dps and ignore the zombies entirely (it can be done, no idea how affordable it is in game) Or swap out them gems. I have aoe. I pull out LMP for a single target gem every time I fight an Atziri/Uber boss. Why shouldn't you have to?

There is a difference between making something improbable for a certain play-style and making it less efficient.

I am all for creating different layers of efficiency within the game, where one certain style will dominate over another for a limited period of time/to some extend.

However that should not mean a certain style get's a big "no go" even at the lowest efficiency rate imaginable.

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You have advantage when you are fighting a single enemy. Once there are multiple, AOE is better.

And for all intentions and purposes, those scenario's are non-existent.

And even then, in many cases the AOE dps will outperform the single target set-up.(in case of a hybrid set-up)

Simply because Aoe is more required to finish the content, it ends up in the highest link within a gear set, usually resulting in a better utility vs single targets when compared to a 4-link designated slot for a single target skill.

Peace,

-boem-

Edit : anyway i should not go further into this subject, it is quite clear GGG has given up on single target oriented characters and skills by the recent additions to the game.

Both in skill gems and released content.

Cheers.

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F1ghtClub написал:

Create win conditions that reward REAL gamer skill/dedication.

read as: Conditions that YOU can deal with

99.9% of all gamers seems to think they are extremely good gamers.

When something ends up in their favor they see it as their reward of being super awesome.
When something does not end up in their favor other people are usually scamming/cheating/using RMT/have luck.

Just my 2 cents

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Raybabbitt написал:

When something does not end up in their favor other people are usually scamming/cheating/using RMT/have luck.

I don't necessarily disagree with your point, but it's worthwhile to mention that we know that certain people who have "accomplished" certain things did so by either cheating, buying kills, and RMTing. Not everyone, but it's certainly not a rare, never heard of exception, either. We can't discuss details or mention names here, though. (I also don't blame the people who do this. The game and contest designs encourage and reward such behaviors, with consequences being rare, so for competitive players there must be a lot of temptation.)

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mucker написал:

Atziri is meant to be a challenge for players, not for characters. As a player part of the challenge is figuring out what character is best to defeat her. The idea that all builds with equally valued gear should all be able to do everything equally is absurd. Characters with different abilities handle things in different ways and with different degrees of difficulty. For it to be otherwise would make all character building decisions meaningless.

My 2h sword blood magic acrobatics witch uses cleave and still can't kill Atziri! Does that mean GGG did a bad job designing Atziri? No. It means that for the gear I have access to my build is too weak to do Atziri. That's all.

You're attacking a strawman. No one here said that every single build in this game should be able to beat Atziri.

The issue is that when Atziri was released, builds that were previously able to faceroll level 77+ maps with ease now have to practically regear/restat their setup for the Atziri fight. Did fine with 77% lightning/fire resists before in high-end maps? Cool story! Now you need a minimum of 87% lightning/fire resists for Atziri! And that's not even counting the double Vaal and Triplet fight, which forced people to have high spellblock, and self-cast Immortal Call.

Forcing players to use certain builds in order to defeat a single boss isn't fun. It's just boring.