Blade Vortex vs Shaper (Guess who was utterly destroyed in that fight?)

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BV isn't the only build that utilizes VP and ES. Don't penalize other builds that can't leech enough as it is just because BV is over powered.

CI+VP was always strong, which is why it used to be in the duelist/marauder area in the first place.
It was such a strong node that CI/ES characters used to spend 10+ points just for that single keystone and people still did it because it was worth it.

Currently ES builds usually need only spend like 4 points to reach it, and it's tuckered in right next to the shadow, there is literally zero downsides to picking it up as CI and it is much more potent because ES builds get way more ES than life builds get life.

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sidtherat написал:

Atziri's gloves, legacy vinktars and Bloodseeker - all these can be sacrificed to make this game a better one for everyone

kill this shit with fire

All it would need is the downside actually being a downside. Perhaps make the self-shock non-removable ?

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sidtherat написал:

Atziri's gloves, legacy vinktars and Bloodseeker - all these can be sacrificed to make this game a better one for everyone

kill this shit with fire

100% Agreed. These items should of never been made, simply retarded they've ever been added to the game.

Other items such as: Taste of Hate should just be removed from all future leagues.

The thing can be solved in one or the other way. It is a matter of taste and style and how you wanna handle other variables like reflect.

If instant leech didn't heal up for 100% each hit it would be different. As it is now it seems like instant leech could be the problem. Alot of the minor builds rely on it without being op though.


In my view the problem is the connection of #leeched with #damage. These two should be uncoupled about 50% as that is the reason that higher damage grants higher survivability for no extra costs. Leech should become a mechanic that gets more taxing in terms of passive and gear investment the higher your damage gets to create balance and enforce stable builds instead of invincible glasscannons.

High damage already provides higher survivability by it's nature of faster kills resulting into less time for enemies to deal damage. Connecting leech only to damage potentizes the effect. The result is that low damage tank builds have less survivability than high damage.

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LSN написал:

In my view the problem is the connection of #leeched with #damage. These two should be uncoupled all the way as that is the reason that higher damage grants higher survivability for no extra costs. Leech should become a mechanic that gets more taxing in terms of passive and gear investment the higher your damage gets to create balance and enforce stable builds instead of invincible glasscannons building that we have since the launch of this game.

But PoE already has such a mechanics - "life gained on hit".

So what?


ok let me explain:

a) This mechanic is useless if you can switch %leech into better instant leech than the original instant leech which is lgoh.
b) Life gain on hit is very static. It cannot be scaled with passives or gear but just flatly increased.


The problem is as already stated that you scale #leech with #damage.



We got the same problem with crits. Crits not only provide the highest damage but also the highest utility. So a relyably and high critting build can freeze, shock and burn. Instead this should be a seperate mechanic that costs additional commitment in passives or gear which then either reduces your ability to deal damage or survivability.


The equation now is a bit like to get high damage with crits to have best clear speed, highest utility and the best survivability. This means imbalance by default. The highest damage dealer is the best tank at the same time. Everything else usless compared to that. People get mad.

The equation should be:
Survivability + Damage + Utility = 1
not:
Survivability = Damage = Utility


In future PoE group play I see different characters to complement each other more instead of force a damage and clear speed race. This is the reason why most guys I know prefer to play alone or in smaller groups. If in high level content one guy could provide the tankiness, the other the damage and the next one the control we would have a major improvent. Damage race reveal inequalities of the different builds, gear & the balance and game in general more and thus create frustration.


About the types of personalities and their impact:
Different personalities have different preferences. To keep it simple there are those for which it is important that their guild members/friends call them to clear hard content, to be first in clearing content and therefore they pick the most suitible build for it, which is the current op build. Others like to be admired for clearing content with the most difficult build or their unique style and ideas.

Good game mechanics provide a balance for all these different kind of peronalities and their preferences which I only named few and vague. To achieve that, different kind of builds should complement each other in group play to create cooperative atmosphere instead of a competitive one. In PoE yet too much the same personality wins. That creates competition where it is neither needed nor wanted. And thus we have frustration and hate amongst users which will ultimately drive away players.

Competition could still continue to exist within the types and classes such as
tank vs. tank
DD vs. DD
controller vs. controller
support vs. support (aura, whatever)
if just not all DD was the best composition to have at any given time.

This btw. doesn't mean that any of the types cannot clear content by itself. It just means that a group benefits more from different types of focus charackters than having it all the same. In the end everybody wins and imbalances will weigh less and will be less visible.





tl;dr:
The true problem is not that there are inequalities and that BV individually is the best or most efficient build. Those did and will always exist. The problem is that 6x BV will be the best group of 6 players at any given time and there is no room for anyone else (other than an aura-support build).

Anyway is the game now is better than ever before. It's just a shame that few builds unite all advantages in one and even outclass others in fields that those focussed on. It is a matter of fundamental mechanics which as well unite too many things in one: high damage and crits. Especially with future expansions of the passive tree a change can be fitted in easily as more diverse builds probably require more passives to spend.


p.s:
And before the "this is no mmo" guys come. You are wrong. A company doesn't consist of 100% accountants. A game developer can't exist with only level designers or graphic artists. It is not about mmos. It is always the composition. This doesn't mean they cannot exist alone at solo play or with individual work. Everybody can still choose his build to be a mix of everything and have e.g. some control good survivability and ok damage or high damage ok survivability and few control. But a group should always benefit most from different kind of focuses.

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Mannoth написал:

Tone down BV crit chance

Why not remove it entirely? As far as i can tell that's the exact same reason Incinerate doesn't crit, right?

Another difference is that incinerate is stationary and BV is not. If you could cast BV and merrily stack your little blades that's fine but as soon as you move *poof* they gone.

How's that?

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c0refreAk написал:

To be honest guys BV is somewhat "fine" if you talk about skillfully kill a boss you can also drop Warchief Totems which is called "melee" theese days and watch him die, such fun.

Pathfinder is a problem, well, flasks are a problem it's not a secret that flasks are opopie as fuck especially with Pathfinder. But the game is basically designed around flasks and or insta leech

Unfortunately true. I say "unfortunately" because juggling flask cooldowns is not something I find fun at all. :(

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LSN написал:

So what?
ok let me explain:

a) This mechanic is useless if you can switch %leech into better instant leech than the original instant leech which is lgoh.
b) Life gain on hit is very static. It cannot be scaled with passives or gear but just flatly increased.


The problem is as already stated that you scale #leech with #damage.

Life gain on hit is not useless. It can be scaled with AS and number of hits, and you can make a viable LGoH build in PoE. It wont be as OP as VP builds, obviously.

The problem is, GGG cant balance their own game properly. Sometimes they try, sometimes they dont, even. For such a complex game, they need much better balancing team imo.

Yes, instant leech is OP. Almost every ARPG proves that, with a character(s), that can facetank everything besides oneshots due to insane leech. PoE was first, who introduced non-instant Life Leech mechanics, limited by character's HP pool. This idea is very good, and i think, Vaal Pact/Acuity just shits on it.
Of course, instant leech can be balanced so only top-tier character would have godly leech. But then, leech for low-tier cjaracters would be useless. Alternatively, you can make it hard to get both instant LL and high HP pool. For example, change VP into something like "Life leech is instant. 35% less energy shield. 20% less life.". And acuity, as well. It may work, but most probably, players will complain a lot about it :).

For me, BV is a melee spell. It's funny to watch how players complain about ranged classes dominate PoE, when in fact, melee do (BV).

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sidtherat написал:

the true problem IS and ALWAYS HAS BEEN - instant leech

remove instant leech (in all forms) from the game and suddenly most of the broken idiotic stuff is gone

this one f.. keystone (and few items) ruin any resemblance of being serious about game design ggg tried to make

There is a problem with VP, yeah ... but please ........... don't ruin my lightning tendrils berserker =(((( ( like, better throw the gem away if I cannot outleech from it, it's just too static .... ).


BV's dps seems really over the top, not just the synergy with pathfinder.