Map Boss HP is retarded / not worth it / waste of time / GGG do you even try

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xMustard написал:

its funny but its somewhat true.
people are just going to tell him to git gud because many people in this community are elitist idiots that think saying such a thing is a legitimate argument, but he has good points.

on my standard characters where i could respec directly into what i wanted and load up my 6L gear and OP stuff and 20/20 gems, the map bosses hp isn't an issue. im already plugging away at t15s trying to get back to the guardians to test my setup to see what is optimal and it isn't an issue.

however playing the game from scratch or even SSF, the transition into maps is going to be absolutely horrendous. i imagine you will have to skip all kinds of bosses.
even on one of my standard characters with insane dps and such, i just wanted to test something so i ran a tier8 map which just happened to have something like 30% inc boss hp, and that boss took like 30 seconds to kill. i forget the map, but it much have been a naturally high hp boss or something.

"oh no 30 seconds thats such a long damn time blah blah"

keep in mind this is a character that can clear end game content and clear it fast. normally i can kill mid tier bosses in about 2-3 seconds. and yes, 30 seconds is a long time.

problem with drawing the fights out is that the game has naturally evolved into everybody being a glass cannon because of a few reasons
#1 everybody is glass regardless of defenses. doesn't matter if you have 70% chance to evade, you'll get one shot. doesn't matter if you have 12k ES, you can still get one shot. doesn't matter if you have 9k life, you can still get one shot.
#2 best defense is a good offense. kill before you're killed.
#3 best defense is a good offense. vaal pact is a NECESSITY because life pots almost don't even exist anymore. they don't regen enough, they don't regen fast enough, they don't have enough charges. this is regardless of how you augment them. thus your main defense is your life leech, so you want as much dmg as you can get to leech as much life as quickly as possible.

so when fights are now lasting way longer there is more time for you to mess up vs the mechanics and get one shot, more time to just get one shot by their overtuned adds or something else, more time for you to waste all your flask charges without making any progress (need to portal out constantly), etc etc

Yep well said, another thing I want to add in is that if they're going to scale up the difficulty of the bosses leading up to the guardians, it only makes sense to also scale up the rewards leading up to the bosses. If that isn't being done, you're effectively hurting the gamer's experience and QOL. Doubling the HP of monsters is a lazy way to implement such a desired change IMO.

Guardians drop shaper frags, shaper drops uniques, t15 and below bosses drop ??? nothing ???

That was the reason guardians were supposed to be so hard, right?

As for the harbinger expansion, I don't have that much of a problem with it. I wasn't around for perandus league, but were people complaining the same way? This feels similar to perandus in how monsters are spawning and the drops feel about as underwhelming as a perandus box. Yea, you can get perandus offering you a skyfourth for 12k coins, but come on, how many people can say that's ever happened???

My suggestions are:

1. Making kitava's death a requirement for maps. Maybe it would be fair to have to kill kitava to access red maps, but IMO kitava is significantly more dangerous/difficult than an early tier map. Hardcore players will most likely be forced to level grind in a10 to reach a safe level to defeat kitava and once they do, t1 maps will have almost 0 reward for them due to their high level.

2. Bandit rewards, I'd love to see the return of the charges for bandits or through another quest in another act. Right now the bandit rewards seem really bad in comparison to +2 skill points.

3. Scale down the upper bound of monster damage a bit and revisit some 1-shot mechanics. I still think it's silly to die to things like detonate dead. In diablo 2, there used to be one-shot mechanics like iron maiden in the chaos sanctuary insta-killing melee characters, or fire-enchanted MVPs (in particular the ancient) insta-killing a melee hero/merc. The methods players employed to circumvent this proved to not be skill-based solutions but mostly inconveniences for the players i.e. open a TP in the ancient fight to reset the mods and try to roll no fire-enchantment (corpse explosion) or having to TP back to town to revive the merc. They finally ended up removing iron maiden and nerfing the multiplier for CE. Everyone was happy, nobody complained except the ultra-neurotic players who said the game had been dumbed down. I am not saying remove 1-shots from the game, but please design them a little better. People that play dumb should be punished, and playing smart should be rewarded. There is nothing smart in forcing players to run a mechanic like having to constantly open TPs to go back to town and refill pots or other things of that nature.

Other than those things, and what was mentioned in the quote above, I love love love the expansion so far. I think GGG has done a great job and the playthrough feels wonderful. I only wonder what it will feel like on a second character.

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LaurelWreaths написал:

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- I do not think the recent balance changes (especially the boss one) were thought out at all.

when were ANY balance changes in this game thought out? Literally any good unique that was worth exalts got so nerfed nobody else uses it and they cost a bunch of Chaos now

Voltaxic, WindRIPper, Reach of the Council, now that ppl started using Death Opus as the main Barrage bow they nerfed that one too.

Mjolner and Cospris, also Voll`s Devotion as a result. And the list goes on

Yea, this is another complaint I had as well but I've been flamed non-stop by people on this forum. Rather than killing meta builds, why not try to design new items/skills that incentivise players to try out different combos. When you're killing meta builds by neutering items/skills you're basically causing a large portion of those players to move onto another meta build which makes it even more common and the game very boring.

I love being in public runs and seeing really wacky/unique builds being viable. Part of what drew me to this game as well as diablo 2 was the utility, depth and variance you could get out of the game by crunching numbers/theorycrafting but the approach that GGG takes to patching the game is totally wacky.

Outside of a build being super OP in PVP, I don't see a reason it should be gutted so hard. If you think a build is overused and you want to nerf it, sure nerf it but don't slaughter it to the point that it is totally unusable and taking up disk space on your servers.

I mean, it's pretty clear though at this point that whoever is in charge of implementing balance changes needs to review how they approach the game. The recent ES/vaal pact nerf was really silly IMO. There were maybe 3 BIS builds that really exploited ES/VP so nerfing all ES builds across the board was not the right choice IMO.

Oh, and don't get me started on the poison/bleed/crimson dance meme...

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edgewood написал:

Or how bout this? Play content that you are properly geared for and can handle, There are some builds that can play higher content easier just like there are some people who can outplay the crap out of the game. No one says you need to be in tier 15 maps 3 days in, If you are one of the elite ppl who eat sleep and wait no sleep, breathe this game then fine but for others enjoy the acts, play the lower tiered maps till you are leveled and geared for it.

You are literally the elitist player that other people here are referring to....

Yea, sorry but it doesn't feel fun to grind the same map over and over.