VP was never the problem

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LowBudget780 написал:

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tidbit написал:

I have 70-120k tooktip, 228k PoB dps, no VP, no mirrored gear (35c weapons when I bought them), BotR.

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I can solo atziri (not uber, never shaper'd either), do yellow t13-15s, I LOVE jumping into large packs, especially to use Vaal Cyclone.
Mob wise, only thing that kills me is Bearers and freeze while VC'ing.
I can take on reflect yellows by myself or play it safe with my totem. and flamebloods do not one-shot me (like 70%).
My main defense is 1800 life/sec non-VP leech.

character: https://www.pathofexile.com/account/view-profile/tidbit/characters?characterName=Yasureno_Whynot

Sorry to break it to you but pretty much anyone can solo normal atziri and run t13's and t15's pretty much any skill on the tree if they know how to play the game, thats's not an argument against VP's usefulness. You're also reading the wrong PoB tooltips, you do way less damage than you think against bosses with this trash build.

I know I don't have Boss/shaper checked. I also do all the bosses in t13-15's, twinned or not, not just the mobs. takes no more than a minute (inb4 speed meta "4sec or less" whine).
But a major argument about VP being 'required' is to be able to counter reflect / 90%-shot (not true one-shot, even vp can't revive you) things. Most of those are from "jumping in the middle of mobs" or hitting a reflect mob or volitiles or just playing poorly.

if this 'trash' MELEE (extra danger) build can do t13-t15 maps (never found a t16, can't test it. probably can. wasted all my harbinger orbs on beachhead, didn't go so well), mobs & bosses, handle reflect + volitile (not bearers while VC'ing) and do things like atziri (many people cannot even touch normal atziri) and uberlab deathless, with relatively low DPS (not a 1m+ meta build) ... I'd say it's pretty successful. 95% of the game content with no VP. quite viable. diversity lives on.

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Faendris написал:

OP: on the contrary instant leech ALWAYS was the problem. It trivializes content and makes for a super boring playstyle since you simply ignore all of the skills of all mobs. It had to go and I am surprised at how long it took for GGG to actually realize this. Now all GGG has to do is to remove the other sources of instant leech and add a logout timer. Then they can reduce the spikiness of the damage and still keep the game challanging.

I don't understand why you want kill fun what I have with VP. Nobody force you to use it. Let others choose how they want to play the game and not be forced to way how YOU tell others how to play. VP giving us opportunity to play different styles. Don't use it if you don't want but don't forse others to don't use it too because you don't like it. Pretty selfish.

The whole discussion here can be summorised:


...VP wasn't a problem in itself, VP was a result of the (insane) damage spikes ...

and

... On the contrary instant leech ALWAYS was the problem...



You know it reminds me - What came first EGG or HEN?

What is the point to argue about it?
Almoust everybody here agreed that a lot of builds severely DEPENDED ON it and it is not a healthy sign for the game.
All we need to know what is the next meta in this game?
If this nerf touch only VP, well, that will be sad.
If they give something in return or change the one-shot mechanic, it will be completely another.

Personally I would prefer to have significantly less DPS and invest more point into defence if this defence gives me a guaranteed protection from one-shots BS.

Vaal Pact is a part of the problem.

Changing Vaal Pact is a part of the solution.

Removing 1-shots or 2-shots before changing Vaal Pact makes the game become a complete faceroll.

The change to Vaal Pact is one step in the right direction.
And we have no idea how GGG rebalances in 3.1 beyond Vaal Pact.

So how about not getting your knickers in a twist, folks?



No creativity for a 3.0 build without VP?

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Kastmar написал:

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Faendris написал:

OP: on the contrary instant leech ALWAYS was the problem. It trivializes content and makes for a super boring playstyle since you simply ignore all of the skills of all mobs. It had to go and I am surprised at how long it took for GGG to actually realize this. Now all GGG has to do is to remove the other sources of instant leech and add a logout timer. Then they can reduce the spikiness of the damage and still keep the game challanging.

I don't understand why you want kill fun what I have with VP. Nobody force you to use it. Let others choose how they want to play the game and not be forced to way how YOU tell others how to play. VP giving us opportunity to play different styles. Don't use it if you don't want but don't forse others to don't use it too because you don't like it. Pretty selfish.

I care about your fun as much as you care about mine. Not at all. What I do care about is that instant leech is a broken mechanic that led to a lot of bad balancing decisions in the past. If you require VP in its orginal form to have fun you essentially want an "I win button" that does not require any skill. And yes, I do not want you or anyone else to have that.

Anyone know if they're reverting the changes to how VP and Ghost Reaver work together?

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Michael_S написал:

No creativity for a 3.0 build without VP?

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Pick a Mathil build without Vaal Pact.
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1813551

I love post-nerf threads. :-D

so 3 out of 17 builds?:Pthat's a huge array of choices

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Shagsbeard написал:

Anyone know if they're reverting the changes to how VP and Ghost Reaver work together?

I guess it should work (4:10)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_WMakp0KCw

but who knows ...

It´s more complex problem how it´s scaled damage in the game.
VP rework is just a start and doesn´t solve anything without next steps.

Everything what was nerfed in past two years was according to many broken. And that's BS. Those which are so happy about nerfing never past lv. 95 and invested couple chaoses to their builds.