An elegant way to balance Cast When Damage Taken

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JohnNamikaze написал:

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RogueMage написал:

I think that would provide a significant motivation to level-up the gem, in spite of the fact that it would then trigger less often.

In that case, I would prefer to manually cast my defensive spells since I have nothing to lose.

This is precisely my point.

I think the gem is fine as-is, any more costs and it would probably fall into obscurity.

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ggnorekthx написал:

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JohnNamikaze написал:

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RogueMage написал:

I think that would provide a significant motivation to level-up the gem, in spite of the fact that it would then trigger less often.

In that case, I would prefer to manually cast my defensive spells since I have nothing to lose.

This is precisely my point.

I think the gem is fine as-is, any more costs and it would probably fall into obscurity.

Ignoring the cost

Why should a gem be better at level 1 than level 20?



NO ONE CAN ANSWER, ITS A MYSTERY!

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Real_Wolf написал:

Ignoring the cost

Why should a gem be better at level 1 than level 20?



NO ONE CAN ANSWER, ITS A MYSTERY!

Why shouldn't it be? Gem diversity is fun. And it isn't absolutely better at level 1. Two ends of a spectrum, really. On one end, you'd use it for firing off spells like Immortal Call, Discharge, or any damage Spell. On the other, for utility skills. Can't link them all up in a 6 link chest and be perfectly effective.

I think it is enjoyable having gems that function somewhat differently and provide different uses depending on the level. It is probably the most interesting support in that regard.

Its not two ends of a spectrum really.

Its inherently better at level 1

Lets see

Immortal call - specific exclusion because of its mechanics
Molten Shell - specific exclusion IF you want it to explode (most don't care)

Damage based spells - Better at level 2 (not much difference) as most damage/damage taken

Spells being used for their crit effect - Kind of stupid to have on this anyway, one activation every 2000 damage taken, with reduced damage, not good for stacking shock/freeze

All other spells - Better at level 1




So what other gem IN THE GAME is better at level 1 than level 20?

None

Why?

Because its fucking bat shit crazy to want a gem to NOT be levelled, and to get worse.



Lets provide a few examples where that would also be dumb

Added Fire Damage, lets make it so it adds less damage as it levels up, but costs less mana. Do you want to level it? No, because as long as you can handle the mana, its best at level 1 now.

Thats kinda dumb soudning right

What if FP had less cast speed as you levelled it up, so that by level 20 it had a huge cast modifier and was 1/10th of the speed at level 1. So its now better at level 1 dps wise, just because casting so slow it loses its worth.

Thats kinda dumb sounding right




So why is it fine for this gem?


People provide examples of other gems you dno't max, let me list some. Cleave, Clarity, Power Siphon

Why? Because of resource management. Cleave, you using it for elemental damage, when you level it over level 6 it doesn't increase damage much because its only phys dmg increased. But mana goes up. So leave it below that and its 'better' resource management. For a phys dmg build, still better to level it

Clarity, mana regen gets BETTER as you level it, the reason its not taht high, resource management. You only have so much mana. If you could handle having it at level 20, you would, because it gives a better benefit.




Please stop trying to put forward that you think its enjoyable to have gems that function differently, and provide difefrent uses depending ont he level. I am not fighting this in any way

If we inverted the 'damage taken to cast' portion from level 1->20, then you would still have this. It would function differently at level 12 than level 20, activating less, for things like immortal call or molten shell.

BUT it would also be 'better' at level 20 which it currently is not.




No one has any argument about WHY we should have a gem better at level 1, other than this 'gem diversity', which if we take literally we can make other gems better at level 1, and then it becomes stupid to level them, and makes them worse, this makes the game worse, because you don't want to gain the xp on the gems, since when levelled hey are worse.

Why not just make all gems best at level 1, and worse later on? Strawman works because everyone else is strawmaning.




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Just answer


WHY


Why do we WANT a gem to be WORSE if you level it up?

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ggnorekthx написал:

Are you guys mostly talking about late Normal and Cruel? Because I really don't find the gem powerful in late game play. I haven't tried using it through Cruel so maybe it is a much better leveling tool. If so, I definitely see no reason to add a significant additional cost.

I just think any sort of mana cost defeats the purpose. It is more effective to just cast it then. I personally already find it more effective to cast linked spells, with the exception being curses. And how would it know what to reserve if it 4 linked, anyways? The highest individual cost? The total combined cost of the supported skills?

I'm currently using CWDT on two different melee builds, one just finished Act 2 Merciless and the other soloing low-level maps. The Merciless Duelist uses Dominating Blow and Cyclone. Before CWDT, I'd recast Molten Shell every 20 seconds and use Enfeeble on champs and bosses. CWDT now automates those defensive spells, allowing me to focus much more of my attention on converting minions. The only aura I use is Grace, and I have a surplus of mana now that I no longer have to pay for MS and Enfeeble.

The Marauder in maps has 75% block and uses CWDT only to cast Enfeeble. He specializes in DoT's like Viper Strike and Puncture, and I use Vulnerability as a finishing touch. Before CWDT, I had to micromanage Enfeeble and Vulnerability curses, and often wound up with suboptimal cursing. Now I just leave Enfeeble on autopilot, and focus exclusively on maximizing my DoT's. I run Hatred along with Shield Charge, but my attacks require only minimal mana support.

Both of these builds use leech and/or active mana regeneration to minimize flask use. With CWDT, they almost never run out of mana. My proposal would make CWDT drain a scaled fraction of the triggered spells' combined casting costs. If that drained 50% or less of the triggered spells' manual casting costs, my builds would still be better off than before patch 1.0.0. I'd then level-up the CWDT gem to reduce the triggered mana cost to the lowest level each build could reliably sustain.