Marauder Start Area Feedback

My observations:

Enemy Crit Strike Mult. Reduction (Even ECSMR is a mouthful) is one hell of a stat to throw at a first-time Marauder who just hit level 10. It's not really clear how much damage reduction they actually grant (Crits from monsters are now 121% damage instead of 130%), and they come off as a very niche-defensive node. It's really painful considering how useful the life & life regen passives are to most builds. I'd say these should be buffed & moved to a seperate cluster outside of the marauder area entirely.

There's no bridge between the defensive and the offensive paths. I think most trees usually have one by their second notable? I'd appreciate if one could be worked in here. Also regarding that area, the Strength nodes between the melee start ring, shield ring and stun ring need to go. They're kind of dead nodes, and that particular area just feels painful to go through.

I agree that the starting one/two -hander accuracy nodes should just be moved into the current accuracy ring. As is, you can bypass them with an all-purpose 10% melee damage node, and they just feel like an early punishment for those persuing resolute technique.

I think you should close the loop on the stun passive circle. The division there just feels pointlessly punishing. (You aren't really choosing which two to take, duration versus threshold, because you're lead there based on if you chose one-hander or two-hander. So you have to burn at least one STR node just to get to the rest of the stun-related passives.)

a) this circle does very little except for 1% life leech. other stats are meaningless early, mid and late game. notable is utterly useless.

b) very good Cranium Crusher is locked out by very weak nodes (see (a)). this makes CC effectively cost 5 points as other nodes are worth little

c) land-locked crit.multi cluster - probably one of the least frequently used nodes. resolute technique nearby ofc does not mean they are not needed there, but placing them somewhere else would be nice. some crit.chance somewhere would be nice

d) another not frequently used cluster. AoF might change that but its placement (like almost all in this 'corner' makes it expensive to take and there are competetively placed 'elemental dmg' nodes and focused nodes in templar/witch area if someone wants to maximize AoF

e) life flask nodes. nice but very costly for what they do. maybe modify them with some 'less charges used' or 'faster charge recovery' or 'surgeons' of some sort. Herbalism is a good example.

f) very weak cluster. never ever considered using it as it simply has 2 points worth stats divided into 4 points..

g) much needed DEX node completely landlocked behind the biggest culprit..

h) who ever used this? even on my first playtrough EVER i knew these are simply bad. convoluted paths. low point efficiency. accuracy bonus (not needed early game) blocking pure dmg nodes discourages it


Marauder starting area has following problem:

http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAAAgEBxthYY1BQjM_2SF8_VEnnUu8Oud3yLw==

anyone selecting anything else than this is crazy. in this case it is not that other options are bad (well.. they are) but that one option is simply amazing.

second issue - INT. it is very difficult to get INT. +20 is landlocked behind (h) and there are two +10 side to (f) on a way to nowhere. and thats it. it wouldnt be a problem if curses/auras did not require INT. but they require it and next available INT is that +30 next to duelist. this is huge issue even mid-late game when you want to level your curses (enfeeble!)

third issue: mana. no INT and all mana bonuses being 'reduced cost'. i think that introducing first +mana on hit in already amazing Marauder area is not the best idea but some kind of +mana on kill wouldnt be bad

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- 0.4% Life Regeneration (this one just kills that line currently.)
Troll's Blood (add another 10str at the least, preferably add life. I really don't like this node. I was dumbfounded when it didn't at least get the same +10str that Raw Power and Butchery got in 1.0.0.)
Troll's Blood (add another 10str at the least, preferably add life. I really don't like this node. I was dumbfounded when it didn't at least get the same +10str that Raw Power and Butchery got in 1.0.0.)

Why not copy the ranger in that case? Armor and Life and some notable nodes?

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- 2x Enemy Critical Strike Multiplier Reduction.

Those nodes were really useful back in CB but back then the game didn't have one shot mechanics and critical hits didn't mean instant rip.
They could be added to the 10% more Armor nodes close to the Templar/Scion.

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- 2x Flask Life (i'd guess 1 out of every 10,000 Marauders take these nodes, and that may be optimistic!)

Also a relict of ancient days it could heavily improved by increasing gained charges, add a charges over time mechanic(that's really needed on low kill speed) or increased recovery speed.

Instant flasks don't regen enough life because of heavy hits. The only good ones are instant on low life and that's gambling if you are on 40% and the next hit kills you, they do nothing.

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- I feel a new marauder tree would be an excellent place to put some strong Chaos resistance nodes. The new nodes "purity of flesh" and "life and chaos resistance" are very powerful, but require a voyage for all classes to get, so maybe lesser versions of these kinds of nodes, or Chaos resistance bundled up with life regen?

I highly doubt there will be Chaos Resist for everybody I am still keeping the opinion Chaos Resist is just wrong.

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Marauder starting area has following problem:

Lack of connectivity, between both paths.
The lower path is better for racing worse on cruel but better on merciless again because it's easier to reach the duelist tree->Attackspeed.
But the question is rather: "Why not taking the duelist from the beginning?"

Mostly echoing what has already been said, but here are my biggest issues:


-The upper and lower paths should be connected, perhaps around Trolls Blood or Heart of the Gladiator. The two starting paths of the Marauder are much more segregated than the other classes and this would give more freedom at earlier levels. At the very least, provide easier access to Versatility from the upper path.


-The nodes before and after Butchery and Raw Power should be buffed or consolidated. In particular, the 12% accuracy nodes should be tied in to damage or attack speed so they aren't wasted if you take Resolute Technique.


-There should be more options for mana so Blood Magic don't feel as mandatory.


-The Enemy Crit Mult Reduction, Flask Life, and 10% Stun Duration nodes should either be buffed, consolidated with other nodes, or taken out of the main pathways.


-The whole Purity of Essence cluster should be reworked. The life on hit and life on kill nodes are noob traps that don't scale well into late game. Purity of Essence is way too niche to be gated behind so many other nodes and should be either accessible directly from one of the strength nodes or consolidated into another node.


-The 15% cold and lightning resistance nodes should be connected to the strength node to the left.

My main complaint with that part of the tree is there are too many totem nodes and they aren't significant enough. They're already spread out enough where somebody specializing in totems is going to have to spend a lot to just get around the tree, and they're not strong enough to justify a non-totem character getting them even when passing right by them.

I know totems are the popular thing to hate currently, but I feel a build should be able to use a totem that isn't relegated to a utility role without having an inventory full of uniques and a skilltree wholly dedicated to totems. Totems are original to Path of Exile and I think they should have some of their strength restored through improvements in the passive tree.

my take on the marauder is it has not made the sides quite obvious.
after a bit thought, this is the tree i came up with.

start1: strength or damage or bit of both
start2: armour or resist or bit of both
this will make the starting node very clear, defensive or offensive. with a big node at the end.
after a bit more towards both side of the tree. the life node will connect them together, placed in the center of both path.
damage side extend into 1h 2h weapon with accuracy in between.
defense side extend into resist and shield with reduced crit damage taken in between, but with shield connected to the 1h nodes.

In short I think the Shadow's in a worse place: it has poor synergy with ranger archers due to scant bow power (could use a +phys% and bow crit notable somewhere) and low life% (combining poorly with the pure evasion you get from all that Dex).

Well, that and the beating in life% the Ranger took as of 1.0.0...

The Marauder is doing pretty well all things considered:

Defensive Wing: It's full of resist and life regen, useful stuff when you're undergeared. The critical strike multiplier reduction is probably a tiny bit under appreciated - anything that isn't a one shot kill isn't much of a threat in this game.

It leads out close to a wonderful backbone - Elemental Adaptation, Skull Cracking, Bone Breaker, Baptism By Light, the Templar's decent life% backbone, the Scion's Infinite Life% cluster.

It has everything a growing Marauder would want or need. Aside from Increased Attack Speed, which you could get by starting as a Scion instead. The only cost associated with that is you have to take the three 6% melee damage nodes. That's the equivalent of sacrificing 1.5 skill points, which is nothing basically. Getting into the Duelist's inner IAS, Acceleration, costs five times as much as just starting as a Scion and grabbing Harrier.

I can complain about Armour Mastery however. It could be a lot better - it stacks up very poorly to Leather and Steel, which is itself one of the weakest significant defensive nodes in the game. It could have more move speed, an absolutely ridiculous number for it's armour%, regen, or life added to it to make it a more serious contender. If it remains adjacent to Flask Life, we'll expect it to be really, REALLY strong before wanting to take it. After all, you're saying "if you want this, you have to take flask life. No really. That or burn another skill point that took you hours to earn going around it. Which is what you should probably do in the first place, truth be told..."

And, maybe, it feels like a heavy investment of points churning through everything that's offered here. One thing I like about the Scion and new ranger Melee area is that if you enter it from the outside, it's not a burdensome investment to get the good stuff.


Offensive Wing: This is the one we all know can use the refurbishing. Issues:

* There's too much damn tax around this place. Why? All it has is physical%. You can take a walk in any direction for more physical%, and it won't cost you 3 or 5 points solely for it.

* Butchery and Raw Power are kind of flip-flopped in their position. The one-handed node should be on the south end, because the south end has the Duelist's zone and he's fairly biased toward using one handed weapons.

* On that note, you should not have to pay extra to decide between the one or two handed significant node when you enter this place from the outside. You don't when it comes to the Templar's analogue of this area, Crusader and Enforcer. Not really.

* The life%. It's Diablo 2, we put our points into vit. The Templar's version of this area is the version of it that works. It doesn't ask for a lot of skill points to give you things that you want. Even a mild 16% would be appreciated.


Subjective Complaints

One thing I hate the most about his zone is how it basically goes "use maces hur hur". Cheaper routing to swords and axes (please have some ax nodes in the game that aren't just +accuracy% please) would help with that. Some high level suggestions:

* The Armour and Life cluster. Finish it by having +6% on the third node in this group, too. Add a path that goes through where Unwavering Stance is now, to Reaver's strength lock. This would become a very popular route, for the life% by Blood Drinker and weapon options it'd give.

* Deadly Precision has always felt... well, a bit too much biased to the red zone. It just feels weird that Red is better at landing critical hits with one handed weapons than Green is. I'd like for it to be moved further to the right, somewhere between Legendary Swordsman and Riddle of Steel if at all possible.

* On that note, the lack of critical multiplier available in the Duelist-Marauder region. I'm not saying necessarily that there should be a one-handed crit multiplier cluster there; there's decentish enough sword multiplier already there. Just, that axes should really have some weapon specific multiplier, too. Seems kind of appropriate for a trait called "Headsman", just saying.

* To keep the marauder offensive start from being a carbon copy of the Templar start, maybe consolidate the one and two handed routes into a generic melee route, and then have the starting fork contain the stun stuff. Example, starting at the fork after the 15 and 10 melee damage at the start:

Offense Route A

Accuracy and Damage: 6% increased Phys damage and 10% increased accuracy with melee weapons.
Damage: 10% increased Phys damage with melee weapons.
Butchery: 20% increased Phys damage with melee weapons. +20 str.

Offense Route B

Stun Threshold and Damage: 8% increased Phys damage (melee weapon or melee) and 5% stun threshold reduction.
Stun Threshold and Damage: 8% increased Phys damage and 5% stun threshold reduction.
Raw Power: 10% increased Phys damage. 20% increased stun duration. +20 str.

The idea being that if it's not going to have a bounty of life% by itself, at least it has feasible offense options you can take as one thick blob of points.

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Notice that hardly anyone complains about Marauder<->Templar. I never feel like I'm overpaying for anything here, it gives me a steady stream of everything I want. A decent stream of solid damage%, and decent life%.

Going from the wheel of life to:

Templar: 11 points, 34% life, +65 life, +32% physical%
Duelist: 13 points, 20% life, +52 life, +51% physical%. Then if you're two-handed and take Executioner you have to spend an extra skill point to get to Golem's Blood, just because. (And of course, if you actually want to take Executioner, then that means you don't have Resolute Technique and therefore you're also specced into critical damage or have a broken character. Not a guy with a lot of points to spare.)

(And it's at this moment that I become consciously aware of how brutally close Resolute Technique is to all the Actually Good critical clusters, and how you're offered a choice between the two on the same backbone. Good job Dave man.)

I brought this up weeks ago, I'm very happy to see GGG doing something about the tree. The biggest problem overall, in my opinion, is the pathing. There's no advantage to going through the marauder damage side because of how lackluster the nodes are. Here's the fix I thought of.

Focus on blocking/shield passives. I know the ranger has a strong block cluster, but I think the focus for the marauder area should be more "Increased Defences from Shields" nodes. Maybe a notable or two. Not necessarily block chance, but buffing the shield itself. Because the main focus of most marauder builds is to be tanky, correct? Plus, in my opinion, going one hander/shield isn't really viable. It'd be better to just stack life and use a two hander than having to get the block chance nodes/increased defence from shield nodes.

In it's current state, the bottom half of the tree is completely unused. It's not efficient, not effective, and definitely not viable for end game (not 100% sure on races/PvP). If there were strong shield nodes, I think I would actually want to traverse through the bottom half, instead of just getting the nodes elsewhere.

I agree with most of the previous posts and I would also like to see the reduced enemy block chance nodes back, after the last patch its not possible to reach 100%

Maybe add a passive to make life on hit scale with HP nodes, to make LOH more viable endgame?

Regards

Issues I have:

1) ECSMR - This is kind of weird in it's current location, and kind of a tax for PvE builds. I think the ideal place to move this is to the bottom side of the Marauder start area, next to the small resistance cluster. Make it a cluster of 3 nodes, each giving either 12% or 15% of the stat.

2) The 14% Life Node - Too good. Tone it down to something like 10% life and a small bonus to another stat, instead. Basically all Marauder builds like having as much life as possible.

3) Accuracy nodes in the offensive cluster - Totally unnecessary. If the Versatility cluster isn't providing enough accuracy, there's a solid Accuracy cluster behind a +30 Dex node next to the giant Axe node.

4) Melee Damage nodes in the offensive cluster - Change these to just be Physical Damage nodes instead of Melee Damage. It would be a nice, little buff to using Spectral Throw as a Marauder, and I don't think it'd do too much to make EK suddenly OP in their hands. If this turns out to be the case, then maybe tone down the magnitude, but I don't think it will be.

5) Flask Life - I want to see more nodes like this in their own cluster with their own notable. Have the cluster start with, say, a +Flask Recovery node, then have 2 Flask Life nodes on one side and 2 Flask Mana nodes on the other leading to a notable that increases flask charges gained and gives an Intelligence boost. Call it something gritty like Combat Medic.

6) Shield Cluster - Since I moved everything else out of it, put this cluster next to the Life and Armor cluster, and make an early, accessible bridge from it over to the 1-hand damage area of the tree.

7) Stun Cluster - This cluster is just weird. It takes up a lot of space, but has hardly anything in it, and even though the stuff in it is solid it's going to take some swimming through otherwise dead Strength nodes to get to it from any direction.

8) Resistance Cluster - I think this would be great if you moved it over to where Purity of Essence is, now. Maybe bump the individual resistance nodes to +18% instead of +15%, but I think the only real problem here is that it's more niche than such a central, starting-area node should be.

9) Purity of Essence - Just get rid of it. It's awful. Too niche even for PvP. If you want a life-gain-when-attacking cluster, then change Blood Drinker into a small cluster with two 1% Life Steal nodes leading to it.

10) Cruelty Cluster - It's in a bad place right now. It's between a couple tank nodes (Endurance) and Resolute Technique (which has no compatibility whatsoever). Maybe make it bigger and move it down to the space under the starting clusters. There's a huge space there.

11) Arsonist Node - 4 6% damage nodes, a notable 18% damage node, and one semi-interesting node that doesn't hook up with the big damage node. Needs something more.

Also, a bit further away in the Marauder/Duelist part of the tree:

12) Headsman - Less accuracy, more damage.

13) Duality Cluster - Those 3% Attack Speed nodes should probably be 4%.

14) Reckless Abandon Cluster - Really weak cluster. The same could be said of the Cranium Crusher cluster closer to the starting area, but the notables are alright.

Oh, and something kinda unrelated, but not really: I kinda feel like I want spears. I want to slap a giant shield, Bringer of Rain, and the biggest one-handed spear I can find, and be the manliest Spartan Warrior Marauder ever.