Enduring Cry

@LSN : you could still express your disagreement without being so rude, I'm actually quite surprised that he got on probation and you didn't tbh.

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PolarisOrbit написал:

Recasting a buff every 10-15 seconds is unfun if all that accomplishes is just maintaining the buff. So I think the problem lies more with Enduring Cry than with Endurance Charges per se, although the two are obviously related.

It's not just about refreshing a buff, it's about needing to taunt monsters if you want to keep the charges.
Now it's much less tedious than what it used to be with CwDT anyway.

for that reason there is codt gem. So you don't have to castit yourself everytime. I myself use a 20/20 one for manual cast before heavy combat and a low lvl one for auto cast on a low lvl codt that just is meant to keep it up.

- If you just increase the duration of the charges this would result in everyone having full charges up for the full duration of a map. Enduring cry instead is meant to lose its charges every here and then. So this is not viable. What could be viable is making codt reduce the duration of gems and buffing its uptime normally (when manually casted) a bit. Exclusively looking at endruring cry + codt this could be viable, but I don't know if this interfers with other skills.
- killing a monster refreshes endurance charges? No way. This is a pure casual idea of things that you have. Codt gem does this repeated event btw.
- eleminating casting animation: now way. Fast casting would not have effect on it anymore then (its a no go in matters of core game design balance). Other skills could request the same e.g. molten shell. Why would molten shell need a casting animation if enduring cry has none? After all you could remove casting animation at all what is defentiely no go.

Enduring cry is THE strongest passive skill in the game already. You cant just make it auto happen. Plz understand this. Cast on damage taken already is the solution for most things anyway.

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LSN написал:

for that reason there is codt gem. So you don't have to castit yourself everytime. I myself use a 20/20 one for manual cast before heavy combat and a low lvl one for auto cast on a low lvl codt that just is meant to keep it up.

I do that also.
I have

for getting endurance charges during the fight, and :

so that I can cast it manually and get many charges at once ( since reduced duration doesn't affect it, it's perfectly fine with this setup.

Indeed.

And now try to imagine how stupid 200% duration increase would be in the view of good game design. It is absolutely pointless to make such threads. Especially when there are other things that are quite underused compared to enduring cry that could need a slight buff way before enduring cry gets buffed.

Still I even agree that these 2 nodes could go from 18% to about 25% probably for making the passive investment a bit more interesting. But ppl fail to see that 18% is already quite huge in terms of keeping something as powerful as enduring cry up and come here with quite stupid ideas. Good thing that GGG guys know how to do stuff.

I think the sole purpose of the charge duration nodes is to make sure that traveling between a classes starting area and the outer highway costs at least 2 passive points. It's a tax, nothing more.

OP, just link Enduring Cry to CWDT and be done with it. If you die before it builds up the charges you are doing something wrong anyways.

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kruemel2222 написал:

I think the sole purpose of the charge duration nodes is to make sure that traveling between a classes starting area and the outer highway costs at least 2 passive points. It's a tax, nothing more.

That would be the case if one of the end charges duration node was not in a dead end right after the charge node in the templar starting area.

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Fruz написал:

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kruemel2222 написал:

I think the sole purpose of the charge duration nodes is to make sure that traveling between a classes starting area and the outer highway costs at least 2 passive points. It's a tax, nothing more.

That would be the case if one of the end charges duration node was not in a dead end right after the charge node in the templar starting area.

The exception proves the rule ;)

The problem is still how utterly annoying charges are. Yes most people only spam a single spell/attack all over the time so using up 3 slots just to maintain endurance-charge is bothersome.

Yes if the goal is to limit players to a very minimal amount of used skills then it is propably fine, however then it would make no sense at all to even include something like Vaal Gems.

Although this is true for most charges endurance-charges are more difficult since a lot of chars have a hard time surviving without them. They are the only thing to reliably reduce physical damage besides AA, since Armor requires upwards 20k to be of similar use.

It is mainly the annoyance of EC. I also noticed that my Block-Char often runs out of Charges because he simply does not take damage. With Dodge + Block but no armor at all it is normally getting hit very hard or not at all. While fighting single bosses this sometimes translates in to one-hits when they hit, which rarely happens. So I have to keep charges up without the option of cwdt and in this situation using EC is highly disruptive for your gameplay, since it is neither a fun mechanic nor something really optional.

I don't mind if endurance-charges are too strong or whatever it is not a balance-issue. It is a problem with the game-flow. Actually it might be a balance-issue since these charges are too important, which is not their fault it mainly is because of other mechanics and the balance of the content. You should be able to sacrifice something to create charges while doing fun things. Which isn't possible. It works with Frenzy-Charges and Power-Charges, although Frenzy-Charges for casters have a similar issue, but not endurance charges.

Warlords Mark doesn't work, similar to bloodrage, because during the fights were you actually need the charges you aren't killing something. And if you have defensive issues sacrificing enfeeble for some endurance-charges actually weakens you even more (unless you have more than 3, but most people just pick the 12% p-reduction up).

E-Charges aren't used because they are such a powerful thing it is just that people feel like they need to pick up every small piece of survivability they can.

Warlord's mark is about confort for half of it, but don't forget that it provides life leech that can be useful, on my char there are situations where I need this life leech :).

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Emphasy написал:

E-Charges aren't used because they are such a powerful thing it is just that people feel like they need to pick up every small piece of survivability they can.

Endurance charges became mandatory for many people, and I don't like it because if everyone close to one mechanism uses it without drawback, that means less variety, and it's not a good design anymore imho.

Maybe Enduring Cry should be revisited as a whole.

Possibly:
- Enduring Cry gets a duration like Blood Rage
- For the duration, enemies get taunted to attack you
- For the duration, get an endurance charge for every x% of your Life+ES taken as damage


also, generic "Buff duration" nodes should apply to charges, and the charge duration nodes should be tuned up a notch (25%? 33%? 50%?)