Lich Mana Theroy: Necromantic Conduit + Mind over Matter

I want to understand the math / interaction between
1. Base Mana Regeneration is 4% of Maximum Mana per Second
2. Lich's Necromantic Conduit: Lose 5% of Maximum Mana per Second
3. Mind over Matter: 50% less Mana Recovery Rate

So 1. and 2. worked well for me during leveling, when I had a few items with mana regeneration. I tried to respec early into MoM+EB and could hardly reach a slightly positive regen while moving (Ether Flow node) while mana went down while stationary. Stupid me didn't write down all active regeneration% values (items+talents) and my gold is lacking to try again and I wonder what the actual math should look like :-P

My Mana Theory
If R is the sum of all "increased mana regeneration" nodes and items, then
simple regen = 4% * (100% + R)
and 25% increased mana regeneration would be enough to reach 5% mana reg per second to counter Necromantic Conduit (resulting in neither regeneration, nor loss).

Mind over Matter says "less", so it should be multiplicative:
MoM regen = 4% * (100% + R) * LESS
In order to reach 5% total regen with 50% less regen from MoM, I would need R=150% increased mana regeneration from nodes, items, and support gems. Obviously that's not enough to actually play, but it helps to understand where you have to go to sustain mana.

Can anyone confirm the above? (edit:confirmed)
Lets ignore maximum mana scaling, skill cost, fancy items and most importantly don't tell me whether MoM/EB makes sense or not :)

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nZain#0913 написал:

Mind over Matter says "less", so it should be multiplicative:
MoM regen = (4% * (100% + R)) * LESS
In order to reach 5% total regen with 50% less regen from MoM, I would need 150% increased mana regeneration. Obviously that's not enough to actually play, but it helps to understand where you have to go to sustain mana.

Not 150% increased, 150% additional i.e. R = 150%

I have not studied this yet but I would doubt that there is 150% of additional Mana Regen available from all sources.

Thus you become very reliant on Mana potions.

The following simple (and useless) tree has exactly 150% increased mana regeneration while moving (only 75% while stationary). With items you can reach quite a lot more. At some point I will test my theory and post back, if it is correct or not. I agree that MoM+EB is a significant investment - of course, it has always been.

https://maxroll.gg/poe2/passive-tree/413dl0il

Not playing Lich (I'm trying to build a Stormweaver at the moment) but trying to stack everything into MoM/Eldritch Battery with a lot of mana regen gear on a character with easy access to even greater regen with Arcane Surge hasn't felt viable to me in any way in 0.2.0. The volume of extremely fast enemies just results in the mana pool being wiped out all the time.

Combined with something actively draining mana like necro conduit... I can't imagine not being at empty all the time.

Okay, I've tested my mana theory and the math seems to be correct. However, as others have mentioned, EB+MoM leads to a situation where 1. you can hardly cast many spells (this was planned for my minion build) and 2. you're out of mana in boss fights unless you can avoid all hits.

I found several ways to get beyond the 150% break point even at level 56 with crap gear, but it was not enough to be useful. The Ekbab+Summoner fight took forever, because I was running out of mana due to aoe all the time :)

Probably I'll try again at higher levels with a lot of excess mana regen, 20% dmg recouped as mana, etc.