SSF Design Philosophy, Other Feedback
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Being a new dad with some temporary free time on paternity leave, I had a chance to revisit POE2 for the first time since January. I decided to try SSF, since we're at the end of a league and, having to watch my son, I've got my PC plugged into the TV using an Xbox controller. So I didn't see a point trying to bother with trade.
With a new league looming (and me going to back to work, when I will have very little time to play), I thought it'd be a good time to provide some feedback. My main gripe is loot. Loot drops are quite poor for an SSF player. I think the idea that SSF should exist for an extra challenge, where we deal with the same loot drops and crafting options as trade league players, is ridiculous. GGG has a great opportunity to take ideas from other ARPGs like Last Epoch and make SSF a viable option for players like myself who want to enjoy the game but do not want to use trade. It seems to me the POE player base is divided here. A significant amount of players enjoy the trade/economy aspect. Being a POE player since 2013, I've enjoyed it a ton in the past. But I'm in a new phase of life where I do not have the luxury of spending time sifting through trade posts on the website, using trade tools, etc. I've also found that with Last Epoch for example, it's quite nice to have systems in the game that allow me to just find the loot on my own in a balanced fashion that allows me to work for it, but still makes it achievable in a reasonable timeframe. One nice thing I'll say is the controller experience is top notch. It's much better than I expected, and in fact the rumble feature makes me want to stay on controller instead of going back to mouse/keyboard, although targeting is intrinsically more challenging on a controller. As a whole, the game has better presentation than any other ARPG I've played. The potential remains incredible. I think GGG would really gain more player loyalty (and ultimately revenue) by carving out a space of the game (i.e. SSF) where more casual players feel like they can enjoy the game, while still also having a space (trade league) for the traditional hardcore fanbase. Not everyone is a streamer or single with no obligations and can afford to no-life the game. It's just a real shame the game appears to be designed solely to cater to these players. Последняя редакция: natefactor07#6095. Время: 23 июл. 2025 г., 04:06:41 Last bumped24 июл. 2025 г., 16:16:29
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They buffed it already (so they said) but the chance to craft something on your own is reality after hundreds of hours of gameplay, almost non existant during campaign until late cruel when you need to slam exalts (those few you get) and hope you get some good mod, add sockets and some quality.
Fresh start is rough on both side at first but then RMT comes into place and screw the market. Also the loot is kinda weird (on the gears side now) if you play certain weapons for example the game drops everythin but that weapon. I play crossbow, and got to maps (ssf) i'm doing t15 maps with a level 67 xbow and body pieces i got from campaign. It's literally dropping every kind of gear but crossbow and Evasion/Energy shield body pieces. Not feeling progression is bad. i got a crazy tangle tongue so i started a ranger, maybe it will drop crossbow now? Последняя редакция: IILU81II#8410. Время: 23 июл. 2025 г., 05:14:51
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You said yourself SSF should exist for an extra challenge... and it does. So why are you trying to remove the extra challenge from it?
The design philosophy of SSF is exactly that it takes significantly more commitment of time and energy to achieve the same goals. It was only added because players were intentionally making the game harder for themselves and this just gave it an official badge - just like Ironman in Runescape. Trade league is the faster option to progress through the game. Your post existing at all is evidence that you also agree that trade is faster for progression. So it sounds to me like you figured trading was time consuming and tried SSF only to realize that grinding is far more time consuming. The best solution that is actively within your control is to migrate back to trade for now until the day they decide to implement something similar to your request. What you're asking for is actually what most people would tend to call easy mode. Which is a completely fair request; even though I'm not 100% in favor of it. That is just entirely different than the purpose of SSF. For some context that you may not be aware of: Player driven economies and trade has always been a central pillar of their game design - they literally designed the game around trade at its heart. The reason they historically have not had any modes where you could have increased drops, is because you can always transfer from whatever league you're in into a trade league. If you could farm better drops then transfer to trade it would cause damage to the trade league economy - which again is a central design pillar. The reason they always have transfers allowed and have never done a mode that didn't allow you to transfer, is because Mirrors of Kalandra exist. They never want the best possible drop in the game to ever feel like anything other than the best possible drop in the game. The idea is that because you can always transfer into a trade league, that Mirror always has the same value and always feels exciting. All that said, they could decide to create a mode that doesn't allow migrating to trade and has increased or better drops. This idea has pros and cons. However because of the context above and because we've never seen them waver on any of the points above to my knowledge, it's largely a moot request that won't happen. |
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" I didn't say SSF *should* exist for an extra challenge. I acknowledged this is the stated design goal AFAIK; I just don't like it as it exists today, and I know I'm not the only one. Look at how well-received the SSF mode is in Last Epoch (They call it "Circle of Fortune"). I'm simply saying there's a good idea here that wouldn't ruin trade league that GGG could implement. You may be right that they won't, but that's what feedback is for. You could still have an SSF mode that's more challenging than trade by default because you cannot simply buy gear from other players. Difficulty could be maintained by virtue of no access to trade, but they could scale back from the more Ruthless-style mode that it is now, to something a bit more forgiving (but still not as easy as some other games where you are showered with absurd amounts of loot, to where the game becomes trivialized). Last Epoch has proven that there is a way to create a solo league that allows semi-deterministic farming of specific gear that still is challenging because the drops are still not guaranteed, but the player is still given a lot more agency in regards to target-farming capabilities. This system feels good without being too easy. Your point that trade league is actually the easier mode (as the game is currently) is true for this reason alone - easier access to gear. But I know I'm not the only one who wants to be constrained to playing the game at a very specific time in order to benefit from trade. If you want to play trade league, everyone knows that you want to start at launch if you want to be competitive. Some people - myself included - are just tired of this restriction, or our real life obligations preclude us from participating at the same time as everyone else. By the time I'm able to jump in later in the league, the market's already inflated. |
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Ah. I did misread. Though I think it's a bit ridiculous to be mad about a mode accomplishing it's intended goals and being fairly popular. You're just asking for a new different mode, which is fine.
Like I said, I'm not entirely against this suggested mode. My only particular concern is that if the drops are way too high then it could invalidat trade league entirely - which GGG will never do from all available evidence. PoE1 shows how SSF can be implemented well too, if you haven't tried it. It's still slower than trade by design, but 1 has a lot of target farming options. PoE2 is mostly just lacking in the content with the varied rewards that make target farming more accessible. I expect the entire process will feel much better once we get several more leagues into the game. Not sure I completely understand your point about markets and inflation. After the first couple of weeks, everything that isn't the absolute top tier gear becomes cheaper. The things that got expensive are the best in slot gear. The league having lasted longer also means that there are things to farm that have gone up in value proportionally. Even when I'd started leagues 3 weeks in I never felt too screwed over by the economy. But maybe that's just more focused on my experiences from 1. Otherwise I'm just sharing the historical evidence for why this request is unlikely to happen despite being a very common request multiple times in every single leaguefor a long time. If it makes you happy or you think it's effective to keep suggesting it, go for it. Just don't hold your breath. :P |
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OP, thank you. I 1000% agree with your message and have nothing else to add :)
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Pretty sure money is the only reason here. They want you to buy stash tabs, they don't really want anyone playing SSF.
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If they buff loot rates for SSF and make crafting viable, I think we would have tons of players going to SSF instead of trade league. Which means less mtx to sell you for stash tabs, skins, hideouts, etc.
Most of the people playing POE2 currently are playing solo. Watch all the streamers and even yourself, 80-90% of the time it's solo play. POE2 is really just solo play with a chatroom text box. +1 agree with OP but I don't see them implementing this at all as it will cost them money/no good business reason behind it. |
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" This is ridiculous. You need more stash tabs for SSF, not less. Especially in PoE2 when you can easily have multiple quads for 3 to 1 which most trade players won't even bother with. |
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These money takes are wild to me. I have never once bought MTX for anyone's enjoyment but my own, nor bought MTX because i saw anyone else with it. It could be a completely single player game and I'd have done the same. Also yes SSF takes way more stash space in reality. Trading was a central pillar of design before premium stash tabs existed not the other way around. They do have to make money to keep existing.
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