Daggers too OP

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LSN написал:

@fade
The game is so heavily imbalanced that the only solution is to get step by step fixes from GGG or quit it for good.

I can't recommend this game to anyone in the current state and thats what I want to get changed.

Balance is one of the most important things in online games.

Sorry to break it to you but this is just YOUR OPINION.


I used to complain about imbalance and whatever in the past too. Before I realized it's pointless as there will never really be proper balance, not even close to it so I stopped complaining and tried to enjoy the game for what it is. If I couldn't enjoy it then I just stopped playing and moved on with my life.

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DirkAustin написал:

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LSN написал:

@fade

Daggers stripped off? Well there are aproaches that have been mentioned.

Modifying the crit mutli of 1.5 and adjust it for each weapon seperately is one easy way to go.

When doing so, the dagger reave would probably go down from 450k to 300k dps at best and still be op compared to other builds with way less potential - no matter how good gear you use.


Look at the charackter distribution in top 100 or in total of the new leagues (other thread). It is exactly reflecting the issues I am talking about. Duelist, marauder and templar life builds ma as well not continue to exist. They are not needed. The game is so heavily imbalanced that the only solution is to get a step by step fixes from GGG or quit it for good. Last patches even made the problems of daggers and crit in general worse than better.

I can't recommend this game to anyone in the current state and thats what I want to get changed.

But why does it matter? You dont have to use daggers if you dont want to. Theyre not your thing it seems so thats fine. I dont use 6L setups and no uniques and thats my choice. Respect other peoples choice with what they want to do in a game. Dont get so worked up about this, goodness, you got a job or go to school or whatever, worry about that, not something as trivial as some numbers and some pixels.

Well what is wrong about arguing for a better and healthier balance of the game? I like PoE in general, but I want it to become more balanced so that I can enjoy playing high end standard league from time to time. With all these op builds around in 78 rotations it is not possible to enjoy playing the game anymore because when screens full of monsters, bosses and everything on the highest level of content just falls one hit this robs all the fun out of actually playing the game at these stages. Is that enough as an answer?

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FadeXF написал:

I agree with Dirk - because go ahead and nerf daggers. (Personally I don't even own a dagger - just interested in this discussion mostly.) I guarantee you the second you do, the next theorycrafted "best" will get used. You cannot just generically balance every single item in the game to be the exact same thing. Balance just doesn't work that way. Making it so every single 2H weapon has exact same stats, attack speeds, and damage - ect - how boring as fuck would that be?

There will always be "top dog" weapons, items, builds, gear. No matter how balanced, or unbalanced things are, SOMEONE will figure out the math involved in the skill trees, items, and figure it out.

BTW - I play ARAM League Of Legends because I love unbalance - chaotic - crazy shit that can happen... in a totally "unwinnable" comp and pulling out the clearly "holy shit no fucking way" wins... or even when everything is so crazy unbalanced, that it actually balances itself out... crazy as it sounds... I'm actually totally ok knowing that some champs/builds/items are totally OP for whatever maps or scenarios they are in - in whatever game I play. Because that makes shit incredibly interesting.

Well you didn't read or understand the purpose of the complain. This is not solely about nerfing daggers. Daggers are just the most visible and therefore it is the easiest to discuss them while meaning all the op crit based stuff in the game that is way too much overpowered for the existing content in the game too. The spread is just too big in order to not complain. It is just stupid right now to play any class that has no good connection to one of the increased crit + attack speed weapons (as said 100 times). For the game to continue to even exist, it is essential to change this. Try to compare it with a diablo 3 where the mage and witchdoctor could just reach 3 times as much damage wile having the same or even better survivability.

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FadeXF написал:

I play RF and Chin Sol right now - shit falls on my screens in 1 hit and I don't use daggers.

Once you generically modify all weapons and items to be the exact fucking same cardboard cut out thing - then what next? Then we strip the tree to 100 "choices" which are all based on life, evasion, and ES?

Understand that no matter what they do, you will never attain perfect balance. Understand that mathematically speaking there will always be a best - be that by 5% or whatever...

Lesson of the day: stop worrying about what others are doing - play a build with items that you enjoy - find something that suites your personal play style - and play hard, for fun.

Let's face it - neither you, nor I, nor anyone in this thread ever were top 100 players anyways.

Seriously, who is even talking about perfect balance? It has been stated several time that this is about consolidating stuff further instead of increasing the spread. I wonder what you do not understand about this? A 5% imbalance? You wont even recognize. 5% imbalance would be considered perfect balance in a game like PoE.

It is not about you one shotting trashmobs on your 72 maps. This is about a single player kind of one shotting 78 map bosses in a 6 man party while all others are afk. It is about gmp crits one shotting screens full of monsters while melee guys have to walk close and kill them step by step.

I appreciate your efforts, but your insight is not sufficient in order to understand the heavy endgame problems of this game.


Btw, I have been in the top 100 ranking in standard league for quite some time. And I basically play only with friends who are ranked higher in there and mostly wealthier than myself (speaking of lvl 100 chars with all mirrored gear, or close to that), I play with the guys who own all the mirror gear and partially crafted it themselves (speaking of 6x T1 items). But guess what. You can't get higher than mirroring stuff for your builds and getting gear that is close to mirror level. Therefore this doesnt even matter all that much. What matters is that the one build with mirror level gear ends up 3-5 times higher than the other. And that is what I am talking about. You obv. not. You talk about that a 5% imbalance will still remain. I said 3 pages ago that even 50-100% imbalance would be quita fine compared to the current status of the game. I really wonder why these dagger users (and all the other builds/weapons that allow high base crit + attack speed + 9 aura (which hasn't been fixed at all too with the last patch and snapshotting btw.) abuse) need to defend that their builds need to stay 300-500% stronger and 50-100% stronger is not enough. Noone will ever find a solid argument for that I guess, still ppl continue to argue for their 700k crit builds.

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FadeXF написал:

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LSN написал:

Seriously, who is even talking about perfect balance? It has been stated several time that this is about consolidating stuff further instead of increasing the spread. I wonder what you do not understand about this? A 5% imbalance? You wont even recognize. 5% imbalance would be considered perfect balance in a game like PoE.

It is not about you one shotting trashmobs on your 72 maps. This is about a single player kind of one shotting 78 map bosses in a 6 man party while all others are afk. It is about gmp crits one shotting screens full of monsters while melee guys have to walk close and kill them step by step.

I appreciate your efforts, but your insight is not sufficient in order to understand the heavy endgame problems of this game.


Btw, I have been in the top 100 ranking in standard league for quite some time. And I basically play only with friends who are ranked higher in there and mostly wealthier than myself. But guess what. You can't get higher than mirroring stuff for your builds and getting gear that is close to mirror level. Therefore this doesnt even matter all that much. What matters is that the one build with mirror level gear ends up 3-5 times higher than the other. And that is what I am talking about. You obv. not. You talk about that a 5% imbalance will still remain. I said 3 pages ago that even 50-100% imbalance would be quita fine compared with the current status of the game. I really wonder why these dagger users need to defend that their builds need to stay 300-500% stronger and 50-100% stronger is not enough. Noone will ever find a solid argument for that I guess, still ppl continue to argue for their 700k crit builds.

Then that makes the arguments here even cleaner since we've taken out "competition" factor - there's really nothing left here to worry about for this concept of "balance."

The only real arguments in a video game for balance would run around competition. "it's not fair because we know combination of X weapon + X skill + X skill tree during level 20>?? is totally the way to become the number 1 guy fastest and for longest" - but in this scenario, you aren't even arguing balance for competitive reasons.

Who gives a shit at level 100 if someone boss kills in 1 hit? Don't group with them then. Make that type of character then if you envy that.

LSN - it seems that you don't really have any point here to be honest with you. The only arguments you can make here seem based purely out of spite (you want to injure/wreck someone else's build and game time by nerfing their BIS weapon) OR envious of their gear... actually in truth I'm speculating: I actually don't really understand where you are coming from here.

Even you can agree that if you nerf Daggers, then the next best will come to fore-front. And then you do what, wreck that build/item next? What happens when finally you nerf every thing in the game, and YOUR build/stuff is next on the chopping block? Suddenly we would have to stop the nerfin madness I bet. Right?

You are talking bullshit only basically and your level of understanding is quite limited.

Daggers/wands/etc. were not god givenly being as much op as they are. GGG gave it and they can as well take it again. Then maybe some day a guy with a 2 hand melee can land a hit on a 78 map boss in an 78 rotation before it got 1 shotted by a 700k crit ranged aoe user (like all the other monsters on the screen).

You thinking is quite limited. Balance needs no reasons. Balance is the reason itself. Balance does not even mean just the relative balance of weapons (what you mean) but as well the balance of content vs players. This is out of bounds. I have plenty of arguments while you have none. Gl and bye

I believe you just upset him lol

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DirkAustin написал:

From the way you go on about this its clear that at least it might be: Real Life = Game

That from someone who posts 20 times a day in the forums since years and bugs pretty much everyone around in any topic with pseudo intelligent advices. I think you are talking about yourself mate. Keep these suggestions for yourself.


I have a clear purpose for posting here. It is mainly for discussing how to improve balance and the reason I do this is that I have a pretty good idea about it. I doubt you can say the same about yourself, you are just here for the reason of bugging others. :p




P.s:
Now you might ask yourself, if he is mainly here to discuss balance, what are the other reasons?
For example to give suggestions on how to improve the game in general such as the whole idea about hideouts and missions to alternate endgame such as for reference:
http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/880822/page/1


Me better you I am constructive you are not. But I am pretty sure you will never accept it, even tho you pretty much must have understood and learned this a long time ago.

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LSN написал:

the reason I do this is that I have a pretty good idea about it

Again that is just your opinion.

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FadeXF написал:

Don't know if I speak for others, but I welcome our new LSN overlord. All hail the king, baby!


Clearly he is better than Chuck Norris. And more interesting than the most interesting man in the world. Just ask him!

Guy is obsessed =/ It's really beyond of what I've seen on the forums lol and I'm here all the time