Blade Fall need to be destroyed?

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ScrotieMcB написал:

Bladefall is too good at low levels of build investment, and not necessarily too good at high levels of build investment.

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I_NO написал:

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grepman написал:

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yotmato написал:

GGG nerfs based on statistics, not on actual relative balance, which is unimportant for the game, this is an ARPG after all, not a competitive MOBA.

disagree. if this was a single-player game, no one including yours truly would care about balance. I mean, torchlight 2 vanilla had shitty ass balance period, and I didnt care much

one of the very appeals of poe is balance, to me. poe markets itself as a quasi-competitive game where balance is important.

having meaningful choice is one of the basic philosophies of GGG and is one of the chief reasons I'm still playing this game three years after I started playing it.

having a skill that is clearly better than other skills simply destroys and mocks that concept

He is correct in every way single possible lol, If a skill has no complaints / threads about it in both reddit and forums it's not going to be targeted. See vaal spark last league; Wasn't enough complaints so they said okay it's obviously fine.

How many threads did incinerate get? Probably 5-10 per week lol
How many threads is bladefalling getting? Same thing likely.

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grepman написал:

hes correct in what way ? youre quoting my post saying something else from a post I didnt quote. what do they have to do with each other ? balance matters to me and I will fight for it.

a skills popularity among the streamers/racers is because streamers/racers seek for the biggest edge, obviously. the ones pushing the ladder are the ones who should care about that, because efficiency directly affects their place on the ladder

I dont disagree that people mindlessly follow the streamers/race then. but thats peoples problems.

there are players like yourself who will play only the most op shit regardless because your idea of fun is taking something to its limit. some players find fun in breaking the game or using everything possible to minmax and push something that isnt balanced over the top. thats pure preference. and that aint me.

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Nephalim написал:

There is a correlation between number of players using X build and the innate strength of X build. Obviously people are not so stupid that'd they'd follow a terrible build (though they will gladly follow a mediocre build as long as any random streamer promotes it).


However, Y build which is vastly more powerful but has not reached FOTM status will not be nerfed and will never be nerfed until:
1) godamned streamer promotes it (people copy)
2) enough people play it (fotm status)
3) enough people whine about it. (incentive for GGG to appease the masses)

So GGG is not just doing an SQL query to see most used skills for level 80+ char and nerfing blindly them but the actual power of that build or skill does not necessarily have to be game shattering for GGG to nerf it. Only enough voices of outrage.

This has been the consistent pattern for literally every nerfed item build skill in the entire game since OB but GGG was wise enough to NOT nerf things like voltaxic or lionseye glare despite the amount of outrage against those two uniques and its a shame they nerfed soultaker because this most recent patch has rendered it a second class stat stick capable of nothing more than providing one more 25% aura.

GGG is painfully bad at surgical strikes and instead generally uses few hundred pounds of dynamite to level a build in order to get rid of a small termite infestation. Even if your build was not directly nerfed, chances are, you will still be hit by some collateral damage.

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In summary, manual casters need tier 1 skills outside of the destruction CoC has caused to an entire archetype of RPGs - spell casting. Anyone remember old DnD pc game's where wizards/sorcs instant kill an entire screen with wail of the banshee? What do we have now? Threshold fireball and freezing pulse that loses damage as it travels.

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again, strong builds normalize themselves. they dont stay hidden for a lot of time. there are exceptions, but in general, whatever popular = op is in general true for the long run.

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Nephalim написал:

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grepman написал:

hes correct in what way ? youre quoting my post saying something else from a post I didnt quote. what do they have to do with each other ? balance matters to me and I will fight for it.

a skills popularity among the streamers/racers is because streamers/racers seek for the biggest edge, obviously. the ones pushing the ladder are the ones who should care about that, because efficiency directly affects their place on the ladder

I dont disagree that people mindlessly follow the streamers/race then. but thats peoples problems.

there are players like yourself who will play only the most op shit regardless because your idea of fun is taking something to its limit. some players find fun in breaking the game or using everything possible to minmax and push something that isnt balanced over the top. thats pure preference. and that aint me.

There is a correlation between number of players using X build and the innate strength of X build. Obviously people are not so stupid that'd they'd follow a terrible build (though they will gladly follow a mediocre build as long as any random streamer promotes it).


However, Y build which is vastly more powerful but has not reached FOTM status will not be nerfed and will never be nerfed until:
1) godamned streamer promotes it (people copy)
2) enough people play it (fotm status)
3) enough people whine about it. (incentive for GGG to appease the masses)

So GGG is not just doing an SQL query to see most used skills for level 80+ char and nerfing blindly them but the actual power of that build or skill does not necessarily have to be game shattering for GGG to nerf it. Only enough voices of outrage.

This has been the consistent pattern for literally every nerfed item build skill in the entire game since OB but GGG was wise enough to NOT nerf things like voltaxic or lionseye glare despite the amount of outrage against those two uniques and its a shame they nerfed soultaker because this most recent patch has rendered it a second class stat stick capable of nothing more than providing one more 25% aura.

GGG is painfully bad at surgical strikes and instead generally uses few hundred pounds of dynamite to level a build in order to get rid of a small termite infestation. Even if your build was not directly nerfed, chances are, you will still be hit by some collateral damage.

In summary, manual casters need tier 1 skills outside of the destruction CoC has caused to an entire archetype of RPGs - spell casting. Anyone remember old DnD pc game's where wizards/sorcs instant kill an entire screen with wail of the banshee? What do we have now? Threshold fireball and freezing pulse that loses damage as it travels.

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1) If a skill is doing well it must be OP

2) If a skill is used by a high tier streamer it must be OP

Kekekeke

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1) The amount of complaints it gets through reddit mostly and the forums itself

2) If it's a FOTM it's likely to be targeted

3) Patch rolls in skills get destroyed making them worthless

4) Patch in turn makes new skills that were or as OP as previous

5) Repeat the process.


WOO woooooo!

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grepman написал:

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Nephalim написал:

There is a correlation between number of players using X build and the innate strength of X build. Obviously people are not so stupid that'd they'd follow a terrible build (though they will gladly follow a mediocre build as long as any random streamer promotes it).


However, Y build which is vastly more powerful but has not reached FOTM status will not be nerfed and will never be nerfed until:
1) godamned streamer promotes it (people copy)
2) enough people play it (fotm status)
3) enough people whine about it. (incentive for GGG to appease the masses)

So GGG is not just doing an SQL query to see most used skills for level 80+ char and nerfing blindly them but the actual power of that build or skill does not necessarily have to be game shattering for GGG to nerf it. Only enough voices of outrage.

This has been the consistent pattern for literally every nerfed item build skill in the entire game since OB but GGG was wise enough to NOT nerf things like voltaxic or lionseye glare despite the amount of outrage against those two uniques and its a shame they nerfed soultaker because this most recent patch has rendered it a second class stat stick capable of nothing more than providing one more 25% aura.

GGG is painfully bad at surgical strikes and instead generally uses few hundred pounds of dynamite to level a build in order to get rid of a small termite infestation. Even if your build was not directly nerfed, chances are, you will still be hit by some collateral damage.

let's put it this way. if a skill is OP it should be nerfed. if a skill is clearly op it should be clearly nerfed. again, I hope we're on the same page here, but I don't think we necessarily are. there are no other clauses, there are no 'but's. I dont care if 'people are having fun', 'people are attached to build x/y/z' or 'other skills are more broken' or 'no spell builds are as strong'. these are all just excuses. and the last one is actually a reason to get the skill nerfed.

now, is GGG perfect at nerfs ? no, not close. they take a long time to nerf shit and sometimes only nerf some offenders, not all. flameblast was op for the longest period of time for no real reason.

yes, there is the popularity thing that I agree with you on. however- this is something to understand- as people learn, popularity starts corresponding more and more with effectiviness of the skill. why ? because over the long run, a skill will show its better than others by efficiency. vaal spark wasnt as prominent last league, really prominent in this one. know why ? more people caught on. more people realized its super efficient in dried lake and open layout maps. because its super efficient, ladder pushers are using. which means, streamers. which means, then, viewers of streamers. cycle is complete.

again, strong builds normalize themselves. they dont stay hidden for a lot of time. there are exceptions, but in general, whatever popular = op is in general true for the long run.

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In summary, manual casters need tier 1 skills outside of the destruction CoC has caused to an entire archetype of RPGs - spell casting. Anyone remember old DnD pc game's where wizards/sorcs instant kill an entire screen with wail of the banshee? What do we have now? Threshold fireball and freezing pulse that loses damage as it travels.

you seem to be bitter about the spell caster treatment, but try to stay objective here. pointing to other groups and allowing a skill be a 't1 skill' in your opinion simply because you like spell casting is biased, silly and defeats the purpose of 'balance'

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Aim_Deep написал:

No build is expensive if you use trash gear. Not sure your point. I can buy a 5L Voltaxic too for blast rain. 5L LC for LA. Skimp on WED, etc. But you won't be doing top end content either with cheap builds. Show me you uber run or even 14/15 maps with 3ex discharge.

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Pewzor написал:

blah blah so you are saying discharge is overpowered... right?

I am kinda lost here kid.

Your build looks so bad i dont know wtf you were thinking... and my discharger sustains 5.2 million dps indefinitely without flasks not 300k. With 9.2k ES 79/79/79/79 res.

Still hasn't seem any BF builds that 1/3 of my clear speed and 32 second uber kill.