VP was never the problem

I don't see why people are so opposed to glass cannon builds. They were an integral part of RPG since the first DnD edition. And we have at least one dedicated glass-cannon ascendancy in PoE.

But the fact is: a glass cannon build still must be able to survive. VP allowed them to do just that.

It's absurd to ask for a glass cannon to "invest in defences". I've been playing with PoB now and it took me 53 passive points to reach just 38% block chance as a non-gladiator dual wielder. 53% with advancing fortress - but i hate it when certain uniques become mandatory.

People are saying that all you had to do with VP is to keep RMB pressed. That is simply not true. You could facetank a shaper beam if you had a near-perfect gear, but you still had to dodge his slam attack that would just reduce a well-built juggernaut to 50% hp.

There were situations that would kill a glass cannon with no hope for survival. Even A 250 ms lag could do that. Cursing a spell caster with silence could do that. Finding yourself surrounded by ranged mobs while being affected by temporal chains could do that. Anything that stops you from dealing damage could do that. Things i would easily survive as a more tanky build.

Glass cannons could do insane damage and still had a chance to live and that's exactly what i expect from a glass cannon build.

What GGG should've done is something like this:

"Gain life from leech instantly. 75% less life leeched. Life regeneration has no effect.".

Done. Now it's only usable by true glass cannons that invest heavily in offence.

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CaptainWARLORD написал:

Seriously, though. You don't see that trivial amount of Recovery a problem?

not really seeing as Ive been playing those builds with 3.6% regen, normal leech and normal life pots in rare red maps for 1000s of hours and essentially never die.

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CaptainWARLORD написал:

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Snorkle_uk написал:

you stripped yourselves of defenses and then just stacked damage because that node allowed you to. You can get more armour, evasion, block, dodge etc now than ever before, its easier to stack those things than its ever been. Ppl just havent noticed because theres 1 keystone on the tree that bypasses the need for them.

That is simply not true.

well, it actually is.

I used to play armour+evasion hybrids in open beta. With about 6 passives invested into pure armour and/or evasion passives Id end up with 7k armour and 9k evasion there abouts.

Then they started adding % defenses to life nodes I was already taking, and it started to become more like 14k armour and 12k evasion.

Then they kept going, more and more defense boosters added. With the recent addition ascendancies and the phys gems that mean you dont even need to run hatred I have a marauder running around atm with 33k armour + 14k evasion and it has 2 passive points spent on pure ar/ev nodes, I have cloth and chain, a 2 point spend to get that amount of defense and this is on a 2h axe build, I dont even have a shield. All the other passives are damage, life, endurance, leech etc.

I have a block gladiator, it spends 3 nodes on pure block nodes that are not damage nodes that also have a bit of block on board. The character has 70% block and 70% spell block just wearing a shield, Ive got no block amulet, no spell block items, no rumis, I spent 3 passives and 0 gear.

Es got nerfed and I think they went way too hard on it, but when it comes to armour, evasion, block, dodge, if you want to specialize into these things its easier than ever to get massive amounts of them for hardly any passives, almost everything you need is rolled into life and damage nodes you would get anyway, you got % crafts you can put on rings, your ability to stack these defenses has been hugely buffed over time. You can get more % ar/ev from your tree now from simply taking life and damage nodes than you could get from investing 15 passives into dedicated % defense nodes in open beta.

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LaiTash написал:

I don't see why people are so opposed to glass cannon builds.

theyre not. According to popular opinion in the community the best defense in the entire game is vaal pact, which allows people to build pure cannon. If its considered the best defense the issue becomes that people are opposed to cannons and think the glass bit needs to be added back into that build style.

I dont think its the best defense, but look at the meta, look at the talk on the forums, most people are making the case that vp is a better defense than any of the other options like ar, ev, dodge, block, you name it. You cant call it a glass cannon if its a cannon that has the best defense in the game and the more it invests in the cannon the better that defense becomes. People cant have their "vp is the best defense in the game everything else is shit" cake and then "but my build was glass cannon" eat it when ggg does something about it.

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CaptainWARLORD написал:

Here's a clue: GGG changed MoM. Loved that. Then they also nerfed Basalt flasks and whatnot at the same time. Not nice. Then there's Pantheon and new Bandit rewards.

Well... to say that GGG doesn't want to give us mitigation would be an understatement. 2% phys reduction. Ahahahahahahahahaha. 2. Fucking. Percent.

I'd have been okay with 5% to make up for the lack of +1 Endurance charge. But 2%.... AHAHAHAHAHAHA.

I read your posts every once in a blue moon, and you fucking jump back and forth between your opinions like a cat chasing after bugs.

I quit if you nerf VP! VP is bad for the game! Powercreep is bad for the game! Dont nerf Powercreep! Hell, in this post alone you go from: "High tier maps are all easy!" to "They overtune all content and then nerf all things!"

Also, you completely invalidate any point you made for un-nerfing evasion/armor and keeping high flat damage reduction percentages in the game. Thats like someone complaining that their cars engine is total shit after they strapped a rocket engine on the roof.

Guys keep it going. Please. It's so hilarious.

Most people who cry about the - absolutely predictable - VP nerf are those who can't use their head and find ways to compensate for that missing instant leech until a streamer tells them how to play.

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Cataca написал:

I read your posts every once in a blue moon, and you fucking jump back and forth between your opinions like a cat chasing after bugs.

I quit if you nerf VP! VP is bad for the game! Powercreep is bad for the game! Dont nerf Powercreep! Hell, in this post alone you go from: "High tier maps are all easy!" to "They overtune all content and then nerf all things!"

Just an edgy drama queen with "I'm right and you are all wrong, idiots!" attitude. ;)

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Redentor написал:

Guys keep it going. Please. It's so hilarious.

Most people who cry about the - absolutely predictable - VP nerf are those who can't use their head and find ways to compensate for that missing instant leech until a streamer tells them how to play.

Man Mathil will have a hard time going to Endgame without his Vaal Pact lifesaver :P

Do you guys know a fun fact? GGG doesnt even need to care about the whiners in this Forum or on Reddit because even if they all Quit.. thats most likely not even a Percent of the Playerbase gone... so who cares? :D

LOL i love watching this game and its community tear itself apart!

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CaptainWARLORD написал:

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Yogoff написал:

Do you guys know a fun fact? GGG doesnt even need to care about the whiners in this Forum or on Reddit because even if they all Quit.. thats most likely not even a Percent of the Playerbase gone... so who cares? :D

Wanna know some real facts, not some talking-out-of-my-ass facts?

VP was the number 1 node used on all characters in Harbinger league. Source

VP is not something you want in HC, that is known and backed up by statistics.

If it's the best defense, I wonder why nobody wants it in HC. Must be some idiots who don't know anything.

What?

The only reason people dont pick VP in HC as often as in SC, is because people do many more non-attack builds than they do in non hardcore. The only reason you'd not Pick RT as an attack build ever, is if you'd build a slayer/scion.

Just because you deduce something (wrongly), does not make it a god given fact. It is still very much talking out of your ass.

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CaptainWARLORD написал:

VP is not something you want in HC, that is known and backed up by statistics.

If it's the best defense, I wonder why nobody wants it in HC. Must be some idiots who don't know anything.

Top players on HC Turmoil - Ziz and Havoc - had Vaal Pact. Their builds would be in Standard without it.

Top dawg on SSF HC Turmoil - Oskarmln - has Vaal Pact. He'd be in SSF Standard without it.

On Hardcore Harbinger, it's Vaal Pact, bitchboys, Vaal Pact, bitchboys, then some more Vaal Pact dudes.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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CaptainWARLORD написал:

If it's the best defense, I wonder why nobody wants it in HC. Must be some idiots who don't know anything.

This. VP looks good on a shaper kill video but i wouldn't rely on it unless i have no other choice.

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Cataca написал:

The only reason people dont pick VP in HC as often as in SC, is because people do many more non-attack builds than they do in non hardcore. The only reason you'd not Pick RT as an attack build ever, is if you'd build a slayer/scion.

Most my builds on HC are mellee/selfcast ones, and none of them are using VP. Not even the DP zerker. Because it's very unreliable form of defence that you shouldn't take on HC unless absolutely desperate. It's a flicker strike in the world of defence - and it will kill you one day.