Join up the Scion starting nodes please!

No community thread or whatsoever has made any changes to it so far and i doubt it ever will, so if ggg feels the need to change something it'll happen, and not by people who can't pick up all the points they want in their build.

What I think would help would be changing the life circle to an armor circle and giving a global buff to all the life nodes to accommodate for the loss of overall life on the tree. This fixes at least two problems at once.

1) Thematically, the three clusters surrounding the scion start are supposed to be based on the three Defensive clusters. Changing Life to Armor would complete that theme.

2) The reason for the Scions dominance is mostly because of that life circle. Removing that while simultaneously making life more accessible to other classes completely removes that dominance. This shouldn't nerf her directly as she'll still have the easiest time traveling around the board and grabbing life.

Joining the scion start does nothing, as soon as you touch one of her starting nodes, your build would have been better as a scion. That does absolutely nothing to target the problem. Someone should make a separate topic where we can discuss where the scion performs better than she should, and then brainstorm various solutions to target the problem.

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Invalesco написал:

Another alternative as Fruz mentioned is to make it harder for the scion to exit the starting area, and my calculations would indicate that that would mean an extra 2 attribute nodes at least to get to the notables - which would hurt their racing ability

Are you implying that Scion is equal as the other classes in term of racing ?
I'm not an expert but ..... Scion gets spectral throw at level 1 ^^", and until the superiority of this gem over most of the skill gems in the game ( that's my opinion of course, but statistics kinda go the same way as well ).
But very good racers are superiors to 99% of the players participating in a race with any class, so it's gonna be hard to really prove.

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Stoorworm65 написал:

What I think would help would be changing the life circle to an armor circle and giving a global buff to all the life nodes to accommodate for the loss of overall life on the tree. This fixes at least two problems at once.

1) Thematically, the three clusters surrounding the scion start are supposed to be based on the three Defensive clusters. Changing Life to Armor would complete that theme.

2) The reason for the Scions dominance is mostly because of that life circle. Removing that while simultaneously making life more accessible to other classes completely removes that dominance. This shouldn't nerf her directly as she'll still have the easiest time traveling around the board and grabbing life.

Joining the scion start does nothing, as soon as you touch one of her starting nodes, your build would have been better as a scion. That does absolutely nothing to target the problem. Someone should make a separate topic where we can discuss where the scion performs better than she should, and then brainstorm various solutions to target the problem.

hmm ... I like this one.
But that will make IR OP, for a real reason this time, because it'd be able to stack like 300%inc armor only from those 2 clusters. If GGG removes the armor bonus given to the converted value from evasion, that could work.

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ScrotieMcB написал:

Core complaint: Scion > Shadow
Proposed solution: Improve Scion area
*facepalm*

1st point partially correct - change to Scion > all
2nd point wrong.

Scion's area isn't improved. Scion doesn't benefit. Only the access to its area is improved, thus benefiting other classes. The only other alternative is to nerf scion's starting area drastically. And i'm not a fan of that.

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Stoorworm65 написал:

What I think would help would be changing the life circle to an armor circle and giving a global buff to all the life nodes to accommodate for the loss of overall life on the tree. This fixes at least two problems at once.

1) Thematically, the three clusters surrounding the scion start are supposed to be based on the three Defensive clusters. Changing Life to Armor would complete that theme.

2) The reason for the Scions dominance is mostly because of that life circle. Removing that while simultaneously making life more accessible to other classes completely removes that dominance. This shouldn't nerf her directly as she'll still have the easiest time traveling around the board and grabbing life.

Joining the scion start does nothing, as soon as you touch one of her starting nodes, your build would have been better as a scion. That does absolutely nothing to target the problem. Someone should make a separate topic where we can discuss where the scion performs better than she should, and then brainstorm various solutions to target the problem.

I see where you're coming from, but this sadly will not help and the mara and duelist will just suffer indirectly because of it. It doesn't change the fact that Scion has easy access to other classes' passives, keystones as well as having more notables within easy reach.

Also, the only other solution is to nerf her starting area, which is harsh and will affect alot of players' builds. The scion performs better than she should in every situation, better than every other class in every other build, really.

I agree 100%. Not necessarily for the same reasons OP mentioned, but I've recently wanted to take advantage of the "less reserved mana" nodes, to allow me to run more auras. I've run into this issue on an Ele Reave Templar I've been playing, as well as another Marauder build. I can easily reach the mana reserve nodes to the left of Templar, but it's almost impossible to reach the ones on the right of the Scion without wasting literally dozens of points to get over there. Don't get me wrong, I understand these points are extremely useful as they can allow multi-aura builds more easily, so I expect there to be some significant point investment but right now, on every build I play, I always just wish I had rolled a Scion instead as I would have easily been able to reach all the points I'm currently using without having so many additionally wasted points trying to reach these particular areas.

Allowing a better bridge near the middle of the tree, other than the Energy Shield cluster, would be amazing. I hope this gets some attention because as it is, other than for niche builds I think Scion is the obvious choice for nearly everyone.

you know another interesting idea is to make the outer skill highway more efficient.
so that the scion (while having more universal access) will have less efficient access when compared to native classes when traversing their respective parts of the tree.

really the only way i can see directly addressing the scion issue is those node highways that lead out of her starting point. or addressing the out highways that scions frequent less.


nerfing the scion start nodes is not the answer, as nearly half of her starting nodes are already weaker than comparable nodes in other classes .

such as her 12 life node which is awful

her projectile nodes which are 25% weaker than the nodes in the ranger duelist and shadow areas .

her attack speed nodes which are also 25% weaker

her spell damage nodes are also weaker by about 25%.


also we dont want to just turn the center of the tree into a black hole of wasteful inefficient skill points .

I feel like this is just one of many improvements that passive tree needs for quite a while now.

1) make center as a hub that can link class sections with each other without a need to walk around it

2) remove all unnecessary nodes (look at the marauder's section for example, it's like a dark impassable forest of nonsential nodes down there)

3) add another short circuit of nodes on the outskirts of the tree to put in place a reasonably short way around the whole tree (which once was arguably there until bloated for no good reason).

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Invalesco написал:

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Pam написал:

In the case of a trapper shadow is better so idk

Considering the proximity of clever construction to the scion area I'm 80% confident I can come up with a scion version that's better than a shadow version!

Trappers don't need nodes around the Scion area, and Clever Construction is quite easily accessible by the Shadow and Witch. Don't even bother mentioning the 18% trap cluster next to the big mana node, that cluster takes too many points to reach even for the Scion and is only efficient if you're taking something else around that area like the Aura nodes or Evasion wheel.

Scion area is fine as it is and if you're going to join up her exits, you might as well join up the exits of the other classes too so we can all be the same, that's not what GGG wants. If you make builds specialised around what your character class is meant for, you'll find you never need to pass through the Scion area which is what GGG wants.

If you theorycraft some more, you'll find Scion area simply uses up too many points to get to places.

People are only playing her because she's "new" and can easily access everywhere without much thought (and more specifically, IR/MoM/EB) and that some classes simply need buffs in their respective areas, it's not a problem of the Scion area itself.

No No No No No and repeat.

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Invalesco написал:

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ScrotieMcB написал:

Core complaint: Scion > Shadow
Proposed solution: Improve Scion area
*facepalm*

1st point partially correct - change to Scion > all
2nd point wrong.

Scion's area isn't improved. Scion doesn't benefit.

Your second point is partially correct; your first point is wrong. As in obviously, directly, factually wrong; you're talking about improving node connectivity in that area.

If you make the Scion area more appealing, more non-Scion characters will travel to it. This will inevitably lead to a higher concentration of characters who could interchangeably be Scions instead of another class; this in turn causes minor optimization differences to favor Scion more often.

I know you like the GR+MOM combo. But the answer isn't making the Scion area even more appealing; it's making the alternative route — mostly Ranger area — a more viable alternative.