Desync prevents cheating?

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UnderOmerta написал:

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SL4Y3R написал:

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UnderOmerta написал:

You're being needlessly pedantic right now. I doubt there is anyone that seriously claims that desync causes hacking or that hacking is to blame for desync.

They just recognize that much of the reason the game desyncs is because the developers refuse to give the client more information or processing power because of fear of hacking. Unfortunately it doesn't really work and there are plenty of hacks anyway. The game is literally farmed to an inch of its life by rmt farms and botters.

All this decision accomplishes is make everyone that plays the game feel more miserable.

There's one hack correct? Wouldn't call that plenty.

There's dozens of RMT sites and presumably hundreds if not thousands of accounts gold farming.

There's also zoom hack, map hack, bots, pick it programs, etc that pretty much anyone can download. Who knows how much else is out there behind pay walls and because they don't want it detected. That's "plenty" of hacks. I don't need to see people running around at 2 million miles an hour before I realize the game's multiplayer experience is riddled with cheaters, RMTers, multiboxers, and bots.

Furthermore, because of the client-side nature of most of these hacks, it also means most of them are completely undetectable. Hell, the game can't even detect if you're loading multiple instances of the game on one partition. Basically, the developers insist on giving everybody a shitty experience riddled with desync to try to combat hacks that will pop up anyway.

GG strategy.

Botting isn't hacking. Worlds different. So zoom and map hack, since pickit is useless here.

Hacking, my definition anyways, is altering the game to gain an advantage. Bots don't do this

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SL4Y3R написал:

Hacking, my definition anyways, is altering the game to gain an advantage. Bots don't do this

Bots require you to inject into the game and accesses your client side data. If map hacking is hacking, then so too is botting. Unless you want to argue that you can configure your out of the box PoE installation to sit there and farm for you while you take a shower and go to sleep.

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trollforum написал:

desync is not a game issue, but a game feature to help combat cheating

eh..???

desync is game feature? lol

They should advertise that on the landing page in that case ;)

Edit : GGG devs must be such evil geniuses xD

Almost everything being on severside does indeed prevent hacking. Almost all examples given in this topic are either not hacking or just maphacking(which is quite minor).

I hate desync and all but this topic is just being ignorant.

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Alea написал:

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SL4Y3R написал:

Hacking, my definition anyways, is altering the game to gain an advantage. Bots don't do this

no, the bot will often altering the game.. Like i said bots are -by definition- reading the map like map hack, they may also use all hacks available to run "faster" (wall hack, speed hack etc...)
finally i could add they are also altering the game in economics ways...

Haven't heard of a wall or speed hack. And listing map hack is what I already did.

"Desynch" prevents client side packet manipulation since everything is verified by the server. This means: No duped items, no bugged items, no speedhacks/teleporting, prediction, rewind, etc.

Botting and maphacks do not rely on manipulating packets. They rely on reading RAM. And to the guy that mentioned it, often, they don't even need to inject anymore. It's hard to stop a stealthy bot army when they roll a new account on another VPN any time one is banned. This was done back in D2, it's nothing new. But now, the CD Keys are free.

Source: I was one of those "Because Fuck You" botters in D2. Gave away way more than I ever kept. We weren't so terrible!

There is a difference. Desynch stops a large portion of problems. It's just the route they chose to take given they were a tiny Indie startup.

Isn't it kind of pointless what type of cheating something is?
Cheating is cheating. /period

Desynch is not a feature, it is a by-product of a bad netcode + attempt of preventing cheating.

Well they sure can't cheat this or that way, but they DO damn well cheat in other ways which are at least as bad.

I am kind of sad that PoE did not go Buy to Play model with a complete offline game. What a blessing it would be for me; no trade B.S., no economy pyramid centered stuff, no deynch..

Well they didn't and I have to accept PoE for what it is now, regardless of how it effects how much I (kind of not) playing it.

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UnderOmerta написал:

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SL4Y3R написал:

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UnderOmerta написал:

You're being needlessly pedantic right now. I doubt there is anyone that seriously claims that desync causes hacking or that hacking is to blame for desync.

They just recognize that much of the reason the game desyncs is because the developers refuse to give the client more information or processing power because of fear of hacking. Unfortunately it doesn't really work and there are plenty of hacks anyway. The game is literally farmed to an inch of its life by rmt farms and botters.

All this decision accomplishes is make everyone that plays the game feel more miserable.

There's one hack correct? Wouldn't call that plenty.

There's dozens of RMT sites and presumably hundreds if not thousands of accounts gold farming.

There's also zoom hack, map hack, bots, pick it programs, etc that pretty much anyone can download. Who knows how much else is out there behind pay walls and because they don't want it detected. That's "plenty" of hacks. I don't need to see people running around at 2 million miles an hour before I realize the game's multiplayer experience is riddled with cheaters, RMTers, multiboxers, and bots.

Furthermore, because of the client-side nature of most of these hacks, it also means most of them are completely undetectable. Hell, the game can't even detect if you're loading multiple instances of the game on one partition. Basically, the developers insist on giving everybody a shitty experience riddled with desync to try to combat hacks that will pop up anyway.

GG strategy.

The existing network model (That is prone to desync) is designed to prevent hacks where you modify your characters gear/stats/item drop chances & RNG. It was never done to prevent client side hacks that don't require interaction/manipulation of/with the server to work.

Another words, the network model chosen was chosen to prevent the worst things possible and not to stop every hack (Because that's an impossible goal).

Map hacks reveal what the client is aware of for the area you're currently in, it doesn't reveal what the server knows about the area. Work is being done to minimize the amount of map information of the current area being transferred to the client when starting an area, so bots will operate "blind" for the most part just like legitimate players (this shouldn't increase desync problems).

Botting is just reading the positional data of enemies from the client, and not the server (So they're prone to death via desync just like anyone else).

I wouldn't be to surprised if there is a mobility skill that bots can make expert use of (perfect timing) to rapidly reach items of interest, either (legitimate players do this too! They just aren't 100% spot on with regards to timing their use of the skill).

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Nicholas_Steel написал:

The existing network model (That is prone to desync) is designed to prevent hacks where you modify your characters gear/stats/item drop chances & RNG. It was never done to prevent client side hacks that don't require interaction/manipulation of/with the server to work.

Another words, the network model chosen was chosen to prevent the worst things possible and not to stop every hack (Because that's an impossible goal).

Yes, but here's the thing, the aforementioned is very, very, very hard to do even if you give the client slightly more power. You could generate a seed table per instance, for example, and that would require the hack to rehook each zone, if it were even able to do anything at all. This + a process or memeory scanner and some kind of item ID check would pretty much eliminate any possibility of this. There have been numerous posts on the reddit about this very subject, including some extremely well informed.

Desync in this game is one of the absolute worst because they literally give the client NO decision making ability, even less than MOBAs which are widely considered 'unhackable' because there's basically no hacks that give any kind of serious advantage to the player.

And furthermore, trying to argue that attempting to prevent the very, very small fringe of players from hacking their game is reasonable justification to make everybody's experience shitty is a doomed argument to begin with. I imagine GGG doesn't even realize how badly desync plagues their game because they don't play it enough on live servers across different pings and gateways.