Stop spreading the Evasion vs Armor fallacy

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RodHull написал:

Pure evasion is not viable endgame - period

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Thalandor написал:

Anubite's post is correct.

For terminology though, you say "Evasion has psuedo-RNG.". This is a misuse of the term "pseudo". All RNG made by man is pseudo-random. They're all numbers you can predict, if you know the generator's function and initial seed. Only in nature you find true RNG.

I think what you mean is "Evasion has deterministic, or entropic RNG". The generated sequence of numbers is still RNG, but the chance for success changes according to your previous success/failures.

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Rheikon написал:

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Thalandor написал:

Anubite's post is correct.

For terminology though, you say "Evasion has psuedo-RNG.". This is a misuse of the term "pseudo". All RNG made by man is pseudo-random. They're all numbers you can predict, if you know the generator's function and initial seed. Only in nature you find true RNG.

I think what you mean is "Evasion has deterministic, or entropic RNG". The generated sequence of numbers is still RNG, but the chance for success changes according to your previous success/failures.

Actually there are true random number generators that any computer can use as long as the operating system supports it. They are typically used for encryption type applications, so as you say, cannot be predicted using seeds.

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RodHull написал:

Your discounting their accuracy roll, its perfectly possible for a high level mob with good accuracy to land many hits in a row, if his first rolls low and hits, his second rolls higher and hits, his third rolls higher still - hits again

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0nin написал:

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RodHull написал:

Your discounting their accuracy roll, its perfectly possible for a high level mob with good accuracy to land many hits in a row, if his first rolls low and hits, his second rolls higher and hits, his third rolls higher still - hits again

There's no such thing as an "accuracy roll" and it's perfectly impossible for a mob's Chance To Hit to vary in between swings.

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radiatoren написал:

Since the system takes a RNG roll to determine the starting value, you can have rolled 99 with 23% chance to evade in which case you get hit, the number goes to 76, you get hit again, the number goes to 53, you get hit again, the number goes to 30, you get hit again and die.

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CommodoX написал:

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radiatoren написал:

Since the system takes a RNG roll to determine the starting value, you can have rolled 99 with 23% chance to evade in which case you get hit, the number goes to 76, you get hit again, the number goes to 53, you get hit again, the number goes to 30, you get hit again and die.

That's not how it works, evasion is not totally random, after an evasion comes a 100% hit and vice versa (so i've been told here in the forum for evasion mechanics).

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Mark_GGG написал:

Evasion in PoE is not fully random.

Each entity in the world contains an 'evasion entropy' value, between 1 and 100. The higher this value is, the more likely they are to be hit by the next attack. The initial value is random.
Every time something attacks you, they calculate their chance to hit as a percentage. That value is added to your evasion entropy. If the result exceeds 100, you're hit, and 100 is subtracted from the value. If the value hasn't reached 100, you're not hit.

Before anyone starts clamouring that they're not getting their actual chance to hit/evade, let's examine this mechanic in a bit more detail. Take the simple example of 100% chance to hit. Since you always add 100 to the entropy, it'll always exceed 100, and thus always hit, which is correct. The case of 0% chance to hit can similarly be trivially shown to be correct.
So let's look at 50% chance to hit. Since the initial value is random from 1-100, there's a 50% chance that the initial entropy value is higher than 50%, in which case adding the 50 from chance to hit will exceed 100 and thus hit, and a 50% chance the value is 50% or less, in which case adding 50 will not exceed 100, and thus not hit. So the first hit has a 50% chance to hit, as it should.
The second hit also has a 50% chance to hit, but will never hit if the first one does - provided you're only getting hit by things with 50% chance to hit you, you'll evade every second attack, and be hit by the others.
Let's say the initial entropy was 42. The first hit increases this to 92, and misses. The second raises it to 142, hitting, and then subtracts 100 from the value, leaving it back at 42.
I'll leave other percentages as an exercise for the reader, but they all work out - if an attack has 25% chance to hit you, every fourth attack will hit, and so on.

This is the mechanic by which streakiness is removed from evasion - it removes the possibility of failing to evade happening to come up several times in a row due to bad luck. Each attack has the correct chance to hit, and will hit you just as often as you'd expect in the average case using a purely random system, but the possibility of occasional but devastating non-average results - such as being hit by four consecutive attacks with only 10% chance to hit each - have been eliminated.

Some caveats:
1) If an attack would crit you, evasion is tested a second time, and if you evade, the hit is downgraded to a non-crit (it does not miss, since it's already tested for that and hit). This roll is purely random and does not increase the entropy value - it just generates a number from 1 to 100 and compares to the chance to hit. Details of why are in the spoiler.
Spoiler


2) Whenever the entropy value would be used, if a certain short amount of time has passed since the last time this occurred, a new random initial value is chosen. This prevents the player from waiting near a weak enemy until it hits (leaving them on a low entropy value), then running to a boss fight, to start knowing they'll have the maximum number of attacks evaded before they get hit. Entropy will perform it's function as long as you're continuously being attacked, but don't expect to transfer it from fight to fight.

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Zakaluka написал:

So you see, there is no longer any "evasion roll". A random starting entropy is chosen, then the monster's chance to hit is calculated from its accuracy rating and your evasion rating. Every time a swing is made, this same exact value is added to entropy.

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Incompetent написал:

Arrow Dodging is special, as it supposedly doubles 'chance to evade'. So if you already have good evasion, the entropy can drop massively, eg 55 entropy will drop right down to 10 entropy as a result of Arrow Dodging. This is what makes Arrow Dodging so incredibly powerful.

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anubite написал:

2. Armor is actually more prone to spikes in damage taken than Evasion.