Stop spreading the Evasion vs Armor fallacy

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fevgatos написал:

Actually you are wrong. Simplest example ever

50% damage reduction vs 50% evasion with 300 hp vs 100dmg attacks from 3 monsters

With damage reduction you are eating 150 dmg per hit (3x50). With evasion, there is a 12.5%chance that you will eat 300dmg and insta die.

Evasion needs considerably more investment in +hp nodes / gear than armor does and that's for the simple fact that no matter how much hits you are evading, when you are NOT you are eating the full damage, which may very well exceed your max hp. In Normal ACT 3 mobs were hitting for 100 against my shadow which had little armor reduction. If I tried to tank 3 of them I would die every time even though I had the best possible gear at that point (500 evasion armor at 28 level is awesome).

With evasion there is a much lower cap of enemies you can actually tank against. In my first example, you cant tank more than 2 enemies without a chance to die if you with evasion. With armor reduction in that same example you could tank 6. It wasnt hard was it?

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wxyjac написал:

I take it you didn't read his post either.

He clearly knows about the evasion entropy mechanic.

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Jakabov написал:

Evasion's randomization mechanic is artificial, like Warcraft III's, but is still relatively random.

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ScrotieMcB написал:

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wxyjac написал:

I take it you didn't read his post either.

He clearly knows about the evasion entropy mechanic.

If you're talking about this...

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Jakabov написал:

Evasion's randomization mechanic is artificial, like Warcraft III's, but is still relatively random.

...that gave me pause too. However, I went and googled WoW's mechanics looking for an evasion entropy equivalent, and found none. So this isn't a clear indicator he knew about entropy... if you feel I missed something, feel free to point it out.

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anubite написал:

Evasion is best against single hard-hitting targets, like rares and bosses. Armor is best against swarms of enemies, where you're frequently surrounded and struck many times in a short time.

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Strill написал:

So in other words, my best case scenario for pure evasion would be 1/(1-.62) = 2.6x EHP multiplier , while my current half-assed current set of gear gives me a 1/(1-.73) = 3.7x EHP multiplier.

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anubite написал:

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fevgatos написал:

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anubite написал:

The only two games I know of to use biased-deterministic-RNG are POE and LOL. I don't think it's widespread at all. But that's besides the point - Qarl assures us that evasion protects against "randomness" - which is the completely wrong argument use to justify not using evasion. Evasion is not random, you should not experience random spikes in damage with evasion. Evasion IS poor against swarms of monsters and thus is poor if you're going to go into melee range against a swarm of monkies or squids, but it is not poor because of some erratic, random nature.

Evasion is a consistent mechanic. It is not random.

DotA uses the same system. Anyways, back to evasion.

Its not about being unlucky and not getting evades. I know that's out of the question. Thing is, no matter how much evasion you have, your HP always need to be at least 4 to 5 times more than the enemy's damage, else you'll die.

But that simply isn't true. Because when Brutus hits you with a critical strike, you basically have no armor. The damage done by enemies like Brutus (and certain rare monsters, like bears) is so large your damage reduction from armor is pitiful; easily less than 10 to 15% (that is not 4 or 5 times). You need similar amounts of life for evasion and armor, you cannot, absolutely cannot tell me that armor builds can work with less life than an evasion build. Both kinds of builds need significant amounts of life.

Taking 4 or 5 hits from Brutus is probably death! If you're dying in four or five hits from a monkey, then you have a life problem, not an armor or evasion problem.

With the way % life regen works, armor builds get just as much life as evasion builds. There's no reason even to have a smaller life pool with armor because you're just hurting the synergy of % life regen and endurance charges. Evasion doesn't have % life regen (or that much of it potentially), so it in theory is less reliant on life than armor...

The main problem is that too many players have this incorrect idea about evasion/armor because when they play a ranger or a shadow, they get all those juicy offensive nodes INSTEAD of life! This is why they blame evasion. Listen, there are LOTS of life nodes for both of those classes and you NEED to take them, you cannot say, "Well, I'll just dodge more." Because getting over 60% evasion chance is pretty much impossible.

400 life (even with 100 ES) is not enough survivability for level 30; Piety will CRUSH you, CB Vaal would tear you apart with his chaos minions; you cannot build glass cannon in this game and you need to keep increasing your life. In HC, the minimum cut-off is 3k life at 60, unless you're doing a crazy wacky build, but for the common player, you cannot be under 3k life. You need to linearly increase your life to this amount by constantly upgrading the +life on your gear and the +life% from your tree.

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Akazukin написал:

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Strill написал:

So in other words, my best case scenario for pure evasion would be 1/(1-.62) = 2.6x EHP multiplier , while my current half-assed current set of gear gives me a 1/(1-.73) = 3.7x EHP multiplier.

Only against average white mobs of your level. Against strong blue mobs or rares/bosses evasion will give higher EHP than armor would.