Forsaken Craft: You've sort of broken your game GGG

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Snorkle_uk написал:

Скрытый текст

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Holocaustus написал:

That power has always been there though, only now it's more readily accessible to a wider range of players.

but this way of phrasing things is deceptive, it makes it sound like there is a favoured bunch of players who have unfairly been handed something or rnged an advantage over everyone else and the whole thing of this guy having and this guy not is somehow inherently unfair. Its not, at all.

Oh look at that guy, hes got a car and a house and a fat bank account and I got f all, poor me? Well no, you are 12 years old and hes a 55 year old man whos been working for nearly 40 years 5 days a week. You have to actually look at the bigger picture here and see why some have and some dont.


Ive played this game for 1000s of hours, I dont have actual figures but Im guessing 5000+? I have characters I havent even played with in over a year who have 1000 hours on the clock, put it that way, and Ive not stopped playing for any real length of time since the start of open beta, my game time is gargantuan.

Start of open beta it took me WEEKS befor eI could even clear a lvl66 map properly. I didnt ever set foot into a lvl77 map for over 6 months I think, took me 6 months and several 1000 hours played before I even found ONE lvl77 map. Sure I have a dragon hunger, do you realise the effort that took? What I have put into this game to get that? Now before you all start with your shinanegans, this isnt about "oh I had to put in x amount of time so I dont want other people to have my gears because Im all buthurt and elitist" its about objectively looking at the game and its life span, this isnt about me, my ego, my shiny things, thats all irrelevant.

When you say available to a wider range of players, what you mean is actually stuff that took you 3000 hours play to achieve now being availible to people who have played 300 hours. Thats not some communist utopia, thats cutting the games life span own by 90%, that is seriously, seriously worrying for the future of this game. D3 tried to give everyone everything right away, and thats why it had no sense of satisfaction or reward and no longevity. they worked on an expansion for over 2 years and when they released it it lasted a month or two and it was done because they catered to people who wanted EVERYTHING handed to them right away and couldnt accept that maybe some things they would never have. Dont confuse a lack of patience and perspective with some sort of noble power to the people pursuit, its nothing of the sort. If people want this game to still be here in 5 or 10 years then they need to ge tthier head around the fact that there has to be something that takes the average joe 5 years to actually achieve, otherwise this is another isntant gratification flash in the pan throw away kids game.



New players are just running lvl77 maps within a week or two now from a fresh start, I know, I was one of the people who argued long and hard for the changes to the map system that made this possible. People are now crafting better gear than I had in my first 4 months within 4 days, I know, I was one of the people whos been arguing for it. But there has to be some sort of balance, some middle ground, shit cant be allowed to just slide right down the hill into noobsville. Yes the game was unnecessarily brutal in the past but its like people have no control, no sense of perspective, it started with people wanting less random crafting, they caught wind of being able to bench 119% phys for 2 chaos and suddenly they HAD TO HAVE IT OR RIOT, such a gratuitous change, now theyve caught wind of having near mirror worthy gear for alts and regals and MUST HAVE, MUST HAVE, GIVE GEARS GIVE GIVE... People need to learn self control and when enough is enough for the good of the game.

The game is the journey from here to there, dont ask for that journey to be made ultra short, thats the games life you are asking to be made ultra short. Enjoy the gradual progress, enjoy the long player, enjoy a game that is WORTH investing 3000 hours of your life in over the next decade. Dont demand GGG give you everything right now cause youll get it, feel no appreciation because it didnt take much effort to get it then just discard path of exile like a throwaway, worthless rag.

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Poutsos написал:

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SL4Y3R написал:

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Poutsos написал:

Well don't you also think that there is a huge "jump" in difficulty by act3 merciless, and especially maps, as well. Maybe that jump in gear progression is needed by most people to be able to adjust. Sure it was possible without it, but we have discussed how easy or not it was numerous times. It's a game afterall.

No, it's not needed. The one additional mod does a fantastic job by itself. You admit it's a jump in power. Meaning it's out of place. It doesn't belong, isn't required, and I truly hope the multiple mod crafting gets adjusted next league.

It's too strong now.

I did admit that. I also noted that there is big jump in difficulty as well. Now since i have quit, i have not experienced how powerfull new crafting really is, but before this was in the game, i supported the suggestion that the end game was inaccessible for the majority of people, and trading, along with very heavy time investment was required in order to be able to progress first to maps, and then to high level maps. If i remember correctly you never beleived that, so i do not think we would agree on the matter. New crafting options look fine to me for more people to reach a good level of power and gear within the frame of 3 month leagues(not 4 as it used to be). If they stay on standard after that, the quest of aquiring god like gear is as hard as ever.

And i repeat, if i see a problem appearing here, is that with the easier accessibility of good daggers, the superiority of them compared to other melee weapons become paifully obvious. I strogly beleive that a huge melee weapon rework should be done in the future. Especially for 2 handed, but in general other weapon types need as good and interesting pasives as adder's touch.

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Snorkle_uk написал:

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CanHasPants написал:

Those "party traders" and "zerg" rush players put in the time to get there first, and rightly deserve the rewards of the market.

its a massive buff to a set of players who were already playing an easy game and needed no buff. The problem they started out with was lower tier players unable to find the gear they needed to play the game properly, and their solution in practice has been to buff the other part of the player base that had no troubles beyond all sense. Sry if that goes over your head, but its a problem.

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THEHORNEDRAT написал:

I need to take break from this thread, because it really riled me up. We call it "arguing with a stone" where I come from. :(

The thing that boils me is, how he considers himself the 'average' player, when in fact, GGG wants to give their causal user base a leg-up. The consensus around here is that the Steam community is as casual and as fleeting as one can get moving from one game to another, with 100s of unplayed games in their library, or games where they just play for 1/2 hour before moving on. So try not to drag the non-stam POE client users in please. We're a more engaged bunch ;)

http://steamcommunity.com/stats/PathofExile/achievements. A mere 14.5% of the steam community only finish Normal Non hardcore difficulty, only 3.5% finish merciless non-hardcore difficulty to reach maps.

Seeing how then, most of the casual (ie the median) player base won't even reach level 4 masters, heck will they even reach level 3 to create a hideout?), will they stick around long enough? Reading the manifesto on FM, you can also see how GGG expects the crafting to complement and strengthen the rare item drops, so they (casual players) can progress hopefully, that little bit further. I hope we can get some feedback about how the player retention is going. Players who stay longer would hopefully also open up their wallet, you know, this game is FTP after all. These players will never craft the gear Snorkle posted and so feared, maybe they'll craft his version of 'tier', at level 0.125 of his lowest 'tier' items. As what's mentioned previously, would Level 8 masters crafted items then even effect this bunch that Snorkle sees with utter contempt? Heck, do these players even care about acquiring such gear, when they never even bother to progress far enough to even meet the character level and statistical requirements to be able to use his super duper items? Or then they see that shiny new 80% sale on Steam and then check that other game out, instead of buying the shiny mtx on daily deal?

Would GGG consider the game 'broken' then when so many players don't even reach the dizzying heights Snorkle suggests? Or is the game already broken and this is GGG's attempt to fix it? And I hope this attempt is not a futile attempt.

I have to convince my brother (Steam nut) to come and play each time. Quite an effort to carry him over to end game maps last league, but at least we have fun together now, across continents. But I'm also seeing more of our tiny little guild sticking around past 2 weeks after FM is released (compared with last league), so I'm cautiously optimistic.

I hope more effort should be, and is being made to engage this type of player, particularly, in cruel difficulty this time, as those players drop out in Normal, it would be difficult to engage with them anyway, but hopefully the players who transistion on to Cruel can be convinced to stay right up to endgame maps hopefully, and this is what FM is trying to address.

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nynyny написал:

On top of that crafted weapons start to easily overshadow endgame uniques. I get that GGGs philosophy always has been that a incredible rare should be better than a unique. Even though fully disagreeing with this sentiment I cant see anyone being happy about what is currently happening in this game. Getting the incredible rares is just too easy right now. The fact that you can simply add almost all desired mods for a fraction of the cost (I mean, what the fuck are 5 chaos? you dont need them for anything else anymore anyway) makes this entire feature a gigantic joke.

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NeroNoah написал:

Maybe after each additional mod added the prices should go up to compensate?