Elemental Proliferation is fine.

Well since we got the Flameblast nerf, usual whiners here will jump onto the next gem.

Funny thing is they will always find a new thing to complain about it being "TOO OP" and will never be satisfied. I told this several times and seeing that weekly "pls nurf dis dis and dis" threads makes me think Feedback section is a plague.

What people can't accept is, not all builds have to be equally strong. Why does it bother you that much, I should ask, if someone clears maps faster than you ? How does it affect you in any way ? If you enjoy the build you are playing, why care about what other people play ?

Unless your only understanding of this game is clearing hundred maps as fast as possible everyday, I see no reason to complain about other builds being too good. (Note that nerfing anything doesn't make the bad any better, it just makes everything meh)

However I'm gonna exclude PvP here, but since it can be adjusted separately from PvE (damage effectiveness), I don't think there is a major issue.

A recent example is the MA/MI Prolif build. I agree that it was broken in PvP since you could almost one shot anyone, it had to be adjusted because it was unfair. Besides that, I see no problem someone playing that build in maps. I don't get nightmares over a guy playing a build with super low budget and clearing maps faster than me.

If you're thinking these builds have advantage over you by the logic more maps = more drops = more currency, I'd like to remind you you can do no maps for weeks and still make currency if you have trading skills.

Please stop begging for nerfs and play what you enjoy.

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Moosifer написал:

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Xtorma написал:

Buff viper strike please.

also what is next after prolif. It's always something. There are always people crying for something to be adjusted. There is always a crusade. it's like a mini-game with people. Pick a skill, cry until it's adjusted (and normally becomes unused) , and then choose another. Rinse and repeat until the cycle comes full circle and they are asking for adjustments to stuff that has already been adjusted, because the adjustment made to everything else requires it.

The yellow brick road gets longer and the emerald city gets further away.

It's called balance. It's a moving target and the crowd who gets their demands met go away while a new crowd comes forward. I'm mostly shitting on prolif because I think it's the main reason MA was so broken and I lost a very fun build to this gem which has been molding the game around itself rather than just being nerfed. How many gems affected by prolif will be nerfed before we say fuck it and nerf prolif instead? Really stop and think about it, shock was changed almost solely because of how it interact with prolif, a game mechanic was nerfed before changing a gem.


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How about this as a simple first step to nerfing prolif. The burn damage gets set on the first target but every target it jumps to it's changed by it's local damage reductions. So, if a burn starts on a fire res pack and goes to a non-fire res one, the damage goes up to anything prolifed after that. Prolifs are tagged in order, earlier prolifs always take priority and can't be overridden by other ones.

Long freezes on bosses are gone, crazy burns can be brought into check and no more infinite duration shocks. Burn might be balanced out on it's own. Freeze and ice damage in general can be buffed up without fear. Shock can be changed back to 3 stacks, therefore interesting again.

So you are vindictive. " I had to pay, so now EVERYONE must pay!"

human nature I guess.

Let s nerf Elem prolif gem, then when the new tree comes and all the ignites nods are 50% nerfed, we will all ask for a buff.

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lolozori написал:

Let s nerf Elem prolif gem, then when the new tree comes and all the ignites nods are 50% nerfed, we will all ask for a buff.

No, that's not how it works. They will then say that phys dmg is too strong and ask for a nerf. Then ranged is too safe, so nerf it. Melee damage has too much aoe, nerf it. Etc, etc, etc...

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Xtorma написал:

So you are vindictive. " I had to pay, so now EVERYONE must pay!"

human nature I guess.

I don't feel I was vague. MA got an extreme nerf because of another gem is also broken. So rather than balancing both, one got shit on.

Can anyone specifically defend prolif here btw? So far it's just a "don't nerf anything, ever" crowd, which just won't accomplish much because the game is always going to be getting nerfs and buffs regardless of how any of us feel about it.

The defense is simple: It does what it is supposed to. Not sure how you missed that part.

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Moosifer написал:

Can anyone specifically defend prolif here btw? So far it's just a "don't nerf anything, ever" crowd, which just won't accomplish much because the game is always going to be getting nerfs and buffs regardless of how any of us feel about it.

I'm not really in a position to give feedback on presumed OP mechanics/content at the moment, so no I can't really defend it; I can (and have), however, posit that a pure numerical nerf is not the best way to proceed.

I do think the "don't nerf anything ever" crowd, or more specifically shit like

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Well since we got the Flameblast nerf, usual whiners here will jump onto the next gem.

seriously has got to fucking stop. It is toxic, a flawed position, and contributes nothing productive. It only serves to polarize the debate into two distinct sides, when the true state of affairs is, guaranteed 100% of the time, some shade of gray in between the polar stances.

At least I, for one, do not consign myself to either "stance," but I am hesitant to accept a numerical nerf to Ele Pro. I agree with Scrotie's stance, however, that it will do something, and does not necessarily need to do much. But when it comes down to it, I suppose if I had to be honest with myself, much of my hesitance probably comes from my waning trust in GGG to strike good balance and not swing the pendulum too far. Their track record seems to indicate a propensity towards knocking the pendulum off its track completely, and I do not want to see that happen with Ele Pro. Before you reply--no, that is not an argument against potential rebalance; just my feels ;)

My "defense" of Ele Pro is that, IMO, better things can be done than changing the numbers.

Like with the ailments themselves, e.g., I mentioned before I had a suggestion regarding shocks--I'd like to see stacks return in such a way that there is no stack limit, the shock ailment counts the number of stacks and updates "more damage taken," each stack expires separately from one another, duration of new stacks decreases as the number of stacks increases, and ele pro can only ever spread a single stack, added to the top. This would mean a soft cap, ideally around ~5 stacks, as the duration would then become unsustaiable; however with proper shock duration speccing, the soft cap can gradually rise during protracted engagements.

The success of such a system would revolve around other things changing as well, though, such as replacing crit's "auto ailment" with something like "10% additional chance to [ailment]"

Another idea regarding Ele Pro specifically, is that it does not spread an actual ailment, but a psudo-ailment at ~50% magnitude (50% burn damage to nearby mobs, 25% more damage taken, and 50% reduced speed). This would effectively function as your numerical nerf, but would also modify EP's behavior in such a way that it could (conditionally) net a buff--1.5x magnitude burns IF ignited as well as proliferated, but 66% of that damage is subject to the mobs own resistances... super chilled but not perma-frozen mobs... etc...

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CanHasPants написал:

Their track record seems to indicate a propensity towards knocking the pendulum off its track completely, and I do not want to see that happen with Ele Pro. Before you reply--no, that is not an argument against potential rebalance; just my feels ;)

I'm still recovering from MA. Any mid-league nerfs come down like this and if they just bashed prolif out of existence there would be some incredibly backlash. But I totally get what you're saying, their balance track record is usually, nerf into oblivion, then revisit in like a year when we're bored to properly balance. It's terrifying.

I mostly suggest prolif getting a DR as it's natural with all other single target to AOE supports. The lowest being around 70%, so seems like a good start.

Really the main problem is probably the fact that a prolif comes off the main target and is unaffected by the new target's stats. If the damage was locked in on the main target but was adjusted to each packs res and what not, then maybe it would be a little more balanced out.

There's just too many OP factors to prolif, some of them are desperately in need of adjusting.

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Moosifer написал:

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CanHasPants написал:

Their track record seems to indicate a propensity towards knocking the pendulum off its track completely, and I do not want to see that happen with Ele Pro. Before you reply--no, that is not an argument against potential rebalance; just my feels ;)

I'm still recovering from MA. Any mid-league nerfs come down like this and if they just bashed prolif out of existence there would be some incredibly backlash. But I totally get what you're saying, their balance track record is usually, nerf into oblivion, then revisit in like a year when we're bored to properly balance. It's terrifying.

I'm not going to lie, this is part of the reason I wanted to advocate for a boost to ignite in general while also asking for an overall nerf to Prolif. That way, if GGG did mess up and overtune the nerf, at least ignite builds still might have a chance by dropping prolif support completely and relying on pure ignite. This also might fail, but a Plan B doesn't hurt, and I like the "nerf your this, buff your that" style anyway.

I think just adjusting things that seem more like bugs/glitches is the proper way to address this.

-Cannot prolif off corpses
-Each target has the prolif effect checked against their relevant resistances
-Maybe have an upper limit to how many monsters the same prolif effect can really get... let's say 3+gem level? Seems like a fair way to do it without completely neutering the gem.

Overall, I don't think nerfing it is the correct attitude, but that it does have a couple abusive properties is worth addressing.