Is it possible for a Greatwolf Talisman to have two Avian Twins implicit mods?

But damage over time IS converted for "damage taken as." Right?

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Dorithe написал:

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FiveHundredRhoaPower написал:

100% elemental converted to fire means you can completely forget about 2 resists. You can leave them at -200% if you want. Right? I'm guessing yes, but it sounds a little OP.

Although finding a unique Greatwolf with the two correct Avian Twins implicits is probably very rare.

You can not worry as much about the converted resist but there are a few instances of elemental degens that would wreck you if negative resists such as Torture Chamber boss lightning laser is considered lightning degen, righteous fire is fire degen and I think Dominus searing totem is cold degen.

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ScrotieMcB написал:

But damage over time IS converted for "damage taken as." Right?

I'm pretty sure elemental resistances cover degen damage. For instance, you take less damage from ignite/burning the more fire resistance you have. You take less damage from caustic clouds and poison the more chaos resistance you have (not elemental but same principle).

Dorithe is applying the logic of differring "hits" from "degen", but I think that only applies to things that specifically state "when hit", such as Mind over Matter. But that doesn't apply to elemental or chaos resistances afaik.

Even though I don't think Lightning Coil works, 100% of Lightning/Cold taken as Fire, Rise of Phoenix, Purity of Fire, Arctic Armour, and Cloak of Flames would still be very strong. Even though it gives up an amulet slot, seems very strong for MF builds, since with Goldwyrm your Fire res would be capped with the listed items alone, and all other slots could ignore resists and just stack MF, any uniques you want, maybe a little life, etc.

Well since this theorycrafting is getting a little more serious I'll go ahead and try to figure out how hard it would be to farm for an "Eyes of the Greatwolf" with 2 Avian Twins mods.

Factors that need to be accounted in:
To obtain "Eyes of the Greatwolf" in the first place, we must sacrifice at least one unique Tier 3 talisman to a Stone Circle, and then kill Rigwald. That is an easy choice because there is only one unique Tier 3 talisman anyway, which is Natural Hierarchy.

So sacrifice 1 Natural Hierarchy + 4 other Tier 3 talismans to summon Rigwald, then kill him.

The 4 other talismans can be any rarity. If you are only interested in obtaining the unique, they can all be white, and you have a 20% chance of getting Eyes of the Greatwolf and 80% chance of white Greatlwolf Talisman. If you want to have the possibility of rolling some good Greatwolf talismans, you might want to do 4 rares or at least some rares.

Now, 20% of the time, or 1 out of every 5 kills, you'll get Eyes of the Greatwolf. It must now roll double Avian Twins. To calculate the possibility of this happening, supposing the chance of rolling each mod is the same for all of them, we must check how many mods there are. The possibilities are:

- Ashscale
- Black maw
- Bonespire
- Breakrib
- Chrysalis
- Deadhand
- Deep One
- Lone Antler
- Mandible
- Rot Head
- Undying Flesh
- Writhing
- Avian Twins (Fire to Cold)
- Avian Twins (Fire to Lightning)
- Avian Twins (Lightning to Cold)
- Avian Twins (Fire to Cold)
- Avian Twins (Cold to Fire)
- Avian Twins (Lightning to Fire)
- Clutching
- Fangjaw
- Hexclaw
- Horned
- Primal Skull
- Splitnewt
- Wereclaw
- Longtooth
- Monkey Paw (Endurance Charge)
- Monkey Paw (Frenzy Charge)
- Monkey Paw (Power Charge)
- Monkey Twins
- Rotfeather
- Spinefuse
- Three Hands
- Three Rat

For a total of 34 possible mods.

Suppose we are interested only in Avian Twins (Cold to Fire) and Avian Twins (Lightning to Fire), for the 100% to fire conversion. The probability of rolling 1 specific mod out of 34 is about 2.95%. The probability of rolling 2 specific mods out of 34 is 2.95% * 2.95%, or 0,00087%.

Multiplying 0,00087% by 20%, which is the chance to get Eyes of the Greatwolf in the first place, we get 0,00017, or about 1 out of every 5882 Rigwald kills.

Did I do the math right?

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FiveHundredRhoaPower написал:

Did I do the math right?

your math is wrong, you dont need 5882 rigwald fights, only 100 mirrors in your stash to buy it from the one in a millon lucky guy who managed to beat the rng gods.

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FiveHundredRhoaPower написал:

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Dorithe написал:

You can not worry as much about the converted resist but there are a few instances of elemental degens that would wreck you if negative resists such as Torture Chamber boss lightning laser is considered lightning degen, righteous fire is fire degen and I think Dominus searing totem is cold degen.

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ScrotieMcB написал:

But damage over time IS converted for "damage taken as." Right?

Dorithe is applying the logic of differring "hits" from "degen", but I think that only applies to things that specifically state "when hit", such as Mind over Matter. But that doesn't apply to elemental or chaos resistances afaik.

General consensus (including wiki - see the Receiving damage page) is that conversion and "damage shift" as the wiki calls it is an on-Hit calculation. In other words wiki confirms "damage taken as element" is not converted for degens.

I have not tested it myself but wiki is 99.99% accurate and it is consistent with current damage conversion rules (for outbound damage) so I highly doubt degen element can be converted yet.

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adghar написал:

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FiveHundredRhoaPower написал:

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Dorithe написал:

You can not worry as much about the converted resist but there are a few instances of elemental degens that would wreck you if negative resists such as Torture Chamber boss lightning laser is considered lightning degen, righteous fire is fire degen and I think Dominus searing totem is cold degen.

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ScrotieMcB написал:

But damage over time IS converted for "damage taken as." Right?

Dorithe is applying the logic of differring "hits" from "degen", but I think that only applies to things that specifically state "when hit", such as Mind over Matter. But that doesn't apply to elemental or chaos resistances afaik.

General consensus (including wiki - see the Receiving damage page) is that conversion and "damage shift" as the wiki calls it is an on-Hit calculation. In other words wiki confirms "damage taken as element" is not converted for degens.

I have not tested it myself but wiki is 99.99% accurate and it is consistent with current damage conversion rules (for outbound damage) so I highly doubt degen element can be converted yet.

I see. Well, in my opinion, the biggest advantage of 100% damage shift to fire would be to ignore other resists. Since that would be a bad idea because you would die really fast to degens, that idea is not OP at all and actually quite unviable.

I still like the sound of double Avian Twins on a regular (blue or yellow) Greatwolf Talisman, though. Convert 50% of cold and lightning to fire and then focus on raising the cap on fire + use AA. Should still mitigate considerable elemental damage + help you get shocked and frozen a lot less often.

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FiveHundredRhoaPower написал:

I see. Well, in my opinion, the biggest advantage of 100% damage shift to fire would be to ignore other resists. Since that would be a bad idea because you would die really fast to degens, that idea is not OP at all and actually quite unviable.

Honestly, I'm very fond of the idea of 100% damage shift. As far as I know, the two examples Dorithe gave are the only Cold and Lightning DoTs there are, making cold or lightning to fire very safe. The only thing I am not 100% sure of is whether the sparking ground sometimes made by Herald of the Obelisk Hits or degens. If it degens then I would personally only go with 100% cold->fire taken. If Obelisk Hits rather than degens then I could see either 100% cold->fire or 100% lightning->fire being used.

I think Chris stated on the reddit topic were the first t4 unique was found that double avian twins couldn't spawn on a talismans.

Sorry to kill the dream guys :P