To all fellow POE Exiled from France my thoughts and prayers are with you

"

innervation написал:

"

DirkAustin написал:

Whats your issue with islam tho? Muslim women wear the headscarf willingly and proudly. I even talked to one and she told me she does it because its for her religion.

The west got poisoned with this idea that islam is evil yet its the west and its christianity that does equally evil things.

Stop blaming islam for terror attacks, blame the terrorists. They dont have a religion. They misuse the one the west brought them up with but all they preach about islam is false.

Muslims are good people. I live among many muslims and i have better experiences with them than with any christian i ever met.

I'll take your statements and questions in reverse order, since the first will take the longest.

I never said Muslims are bad people. Most of them are generally good people, but as I will demonstrate later, hold a few very disturbing beliefs, especially outside of America. They hold these beliefs SPECIFICALLY AND SOLELY because of their religion.

You guys have to stop with the meme that terrorists aren't 'real Muslims'. When Boko Haram and other groups capture people, do you know what the conditions are for some of those people either being executed, or released? 'Can they cite the Quran to the captor's satisfaction?' That's the test.

Tell me again they're not religious.

The source material of their religion tells them to establish a caliphate, to convert the non believers, and to smite the necks of the rest (not just once, but in multiple passages). And that is exactly what captured terrorists and ex-extremists say they are/were trying to do, citing chapter and verse.

Tell me again how blameless the Quran is.

The offices of Charlie Hebdo were attacked. Why? Cartoons. Where in the world would the attackers get the idea that an image of the Prophet is an offense punishable by death?

Tell us all again that they don't have a religion.

--

You can pass on quoting peaceful verses. I don't deny their existence - but this ideological fight is one that Islam needs to have with itself. You don't need to convince me not to kill in the name of someone's god - rest assured I have no desire to.

The people who carry out these acts bear the overwhelming majority of responsibility. Beneath that, the texts of Islam carry blame for having verses that encourage the above, and that encourage an apocalyptic death cult of martyrdom. Truly peaceful Muslims need to work, and talk, and act quickly. They need to demonstrate a better way forward, and they need to reform the religion.

We need Tunisia to work. We need secular governments in Muslim majority countries to thrive. To be great places of peace, and success, and freedom, and opportunity. It's obviously possible.

--

"Muslim women wear the headscarf willingly and proudly." I don't deny that some do and I think they should be free to do so. Now please defend forcing it on the women who would rather not wear the veil.

--

Is the 'west' poisoned with the idea that Islam is evil? Now who is painting with a broad brush? :P Certainly some are. Many Conservatives in America, obviously. You'd have a hard time convincing me that liberals are poisoned in this way given that they can't wait to shout 'Islamophobia!' and 'Bigot!' at every opportunity. I can't speak for the politics of Europe, but it is surely less widespread there than it is in America.

Is the 'west' really at fault here? They aren't blameless, but this is another meme that is so overblown. Wahabism and Salafism didn't start in America friend. And the most basic fact of the matter is that if the Quran didn't have shitty verses in it, none of this other stuff would matter. Thomas Jefferson created his own version of the bible without the miracles and supernatural bullshit, because he didn't believe in them. Muslims should show as much bravery and fix the source material - that will be the biggest step forward we can take.

--

Do Christians do evil things too? Absolutely. Their opposition to stem cell research alone cost people countless injuries and deaths (Muslims don't oppose stem cell research, and the few that do don't do so on religious grounds). The most conservative among them are anti-science, anti-reason, anti-progress, and a whole host of other things that I wish they weren't. It just so happens that this thread is about France, and the attack was Jihadist, so Christianity didn't come up.

"

morbo написал:

"

DirkAustin написал:

In fact, Syrians are muslims, yet they fight the terrorists that according to you are also muslims. You are being hypocritical in your thinking.

Secular regime syrians are fighting islamist syrians who are also fighting among themselves. The point is that islamism / jihadism, which is a fascist ideology, comes from Islam. If you want to know true islamism, then look at the awful political system in Iran or Saudi Arabia, where islamic theocracy is in charge.

"

DirkAustin написал:

Syrians read the quran yet they dont blow themselves up or invade other countries.

Islamist syrians blow themselves up every day in Syria, as part of warfare. I dont want them to come in the EU in masses, without strict background checks. Also the syrian secular regime are not angels, they attacked Israel a few times and occupied Lebanon until not long ago. Still, the regime is way more preferable than the islamist nutjobs.