General Discussion - The state of PoE True dual-wielding in one image [CORRECTED] - Форум

raics quote " raics написал: " Bars написал: If it's any consolation, dual wielding as a fencing concept is completely misrepresented in video games. True enough, had that same conversation some years ago with Legatus (the guy that drops by once in a while to marvel at true dual wielding still being crap). Said pretty much the same thing as that instructor guy in the video, dual wielding was a big pain in the ass to learn and took both talent and years of training, it was pretty much reserved for duels and that what we refer to here as 'fake' dual wielding is actually 'true'. So it's probably best to set reality aside here. In game balance terms, it is kinda tricky to hit the sweet spot and games that pull it off aren't that common. 3rd edition D&D games like NwN or ToEE are doing it in a sense that DW isn't always the best option and if it is you pretty much already broke the game. A good recent example is Pillars of Eternity, it has pretty solid battle mechanics overall and we could say all four styles work as intended 1h only = accuracy and crit 1h + shield = tanking dual wield = attack speed (dps vs squishies) 2h = high damage per hit (dps versus tankies) Now, we know that sw+board is supposed to be tanky, 2h is supposed to do the most dps and that DW is supposed to be the middle road. The trouble is that middle roads in general are way too wide in PoE, they overlap and there aren't enough guard rails between, they kinda melted over time. I think it would be possible to have a meaningful fighting style choice in PoE, just not in current PoE. It's still a misrepresentation. In reality, 1h + shield and 2H are clearly superior to any iteration of 1h only or dual wield. 1h + shield doesn't deal less damage than dual wield, on the contrary, you hit just as hard and just as well with your weapon and the shield itself has some highly unpleasant offensive uses which can't be even recreated by a weapon. One of the things I liked in the Rome series, they showed the power of properly used shield + sword when Pullo was teaching young Octavian to fight. It wasn't an impressive display of martial prowess but they at least showed the shield can be a powerful offensive tool in its own right. About 'true' dual wielding in PoE: apart from the moment where it's completely unrealistic, they should just give cleave a better radius and IMO it will be fine. Dual strike can be used as a boss-killing attack as it will deal ridiculous damage even in a 4-link. I don't think it has been or should be meant as an all-purpose attack as the damage scaling possibilities are too great. You have to be realistic about these things. Logen Ninefingers Последняя редакция: Bars#2689. Время: 13 сент. 2016 г., 05:53:52	Сообщение Bars#2689 13 сент. 2016 г., 05:47:00 Цитировать это сообщение
" Starxsword написал: If you are talking about fighting style, single weapon style would be more common, but it is almost never used in RPGs that have both hand slots or is woefully underpowered. The reasoning is as simple as not being able to use a second weapon/item/shield means you are missing big stats. That depends on the rpg, I guess, in ones that take equipment weight into account going without a shield can have certain merit. Case in question would probably be tactics ogre games, equipment weight plays a significant role there, so you'd actually want to leave the shield behind if your unit doesn't really need it (there are other reasons but that's more due to poor unit AI). There are other examples, in some games like Pillars that I mentioned you get types of bonuses you can't get another way by using a single weapon, and the spellblade concept usually requires a free hand to cast spells, see Bladesinger in D&D or Skyrim for something more recent. The point is there are ways to make it a good idea and you do see it in some games, but I do agree it isn't very common. " Bars написал: It's still a misrepresentation. Of course it is, that's why I said it's best to set common sense aside here. Pretty much anything could be done in PoE if you put your back into it, but this is one of those 'why bother' things, it's easier to let people use southpaw and feel like they cheated he system, hurr durr. Wish the armchair developers would go back to developing armchairs. ◄[www.moddb.com/mods/balancedux]► ◄[www.moddb.com/mods/one-vision1]► Последняя редакция: raics#7540. Время: 13 сент. 2016 г., 06:06:46	Сообщение raics#7540 13 сент. 2016 г., 06:03:24 Цитировать это сообщение
" raics написал: Pretty much anything could be done in PoE if you put your back into it, but this is one of those 'why bother' things, it's easier to let people use southpaw and feel like they cheated he system, hurr durr. Yeah, pussies! They should dual wield wands to boost their totem damage like real men! ...oh wait You have to be realistic about these things. Logen Ninefingers	Сообщение Bars#2689 13 сент. 2016 г., 06:33:36 Цитировать это сообщение
I just feel I should be rewarded by putting two GG axes in my hands, instead of one GG axe and a low level unique "stat stick". Sometimes, just sometimes, you should really consider adapting to the world, instead of demanding that the world adapts to you.	Сообщение Phrazz#3529 13 сент. 2016 г., 09:09:36 Цитировать это сообщение
" Bars написал: " OneAngryDonkey написал: Isn't that mathil dude doing some kind of 5L uber killing dual wield spectral throw fucking thing at the moment? Can't be that bad. Mind you, I think he is using Dreamfeathers or some shit like that, so its pretty much like holding 2 stat sticks. Mathil's doing uber on basically any builds he plays and he has played about 15 different spectral throw builds. Also, spectral throw alternates weapons for each attacks - OP is talking about 'true' dul wielding in PoE, which is skills using both weapons at once, a.k.a. sweep and dual strike. To be fair, they both achieve good damage output, the problem is the terrible AOE, leading to low clear speed, so nobody plays them. Actually, I meant true in the sense that both weapons are used for damage, be it alternately or not. Majority of time I see people using a stat weapon in off-hand that they never hit with. this is what I consider fake dual wielding. Mathil using Dreamfeathers, not surprised as that was done leagues ago, but would like to see more stuff being used, especially different unique weapons both being used for damage. I still feel that dual wielding does not give you enough for what you lose, it could use some special nodes. Now regarding skills, it bothers me so fucking much that whirling blades only hits with one weapon at a time, and only once per whirl. and regarding "gems for x type of gameplay", I think claws are in need of a claw-only gem more than anything else. But yeah, we could use more "exclusive playstyle gems" in the game. I think their restriction to a certain type is made up by having more freedom to being balanced. Oblivious	Сообщение Disrupted#3096 13 сент. 2016 г., 11:26:13 Цитировать это сообщение
" Disrupted написал: I think claws are in need of a claw-only gem more than anything else. But yeah, we could use more "exclusive playstyle gems" in the game. I think their restriction to a certain type is made up by having more freedom to being balanced. Tell me about it. I'm playing an eva dual claw berserker in essence as an attempt to recreate his TL2 namesake in PoE. The original plan was to use dual strike with splash to emulate the autoattack execute build, it was bearable until I ran into marshes boss and his cyclone proved a major pain in the ass to catch. That was the moment I said fuck this noise and switched over to Reave I kept on the backburner in full expectations of something like that. I suppose it doesn't matter, Reave looks like Eviscerate enough and I could get bleed from somewhere else. But yes, not much point in two claws if I'm gonna use Reave. Wish the armchair developers would go back to developing armchairs. ◄[www.moddb.com/mods/balancedux]► ◄[www.moddb.com/mods/one-vision1]► Последняя редакция: raics#7540. Время: 13 сент. 2016 г., 12:56:48	Сообщение raics#7540 13 сент. 2016 г., 12:08:57 Цитировать это сообщение
Can you see how badass it would look if we were to wield 2 starforges in this game...oh wait..nvm	Сообщение SIQI#7936 13 сент. 2016 г., 12:13:07 Цитировать это сообщение
" SIQI написал: Can you see how badass it would look if we were to wield 2 starforges in this game...oh wait..nvm Haha so true. Casters can get away with it better tho because it counts spell damage crit etc from both weapons making it better than any staff. Dual darks was awesome then they added to totally ignore reflect. Git R Dun!	Сообщение Aim_Deep#3474 13 сент. 2016 г., 12:21:15 Цитировать это сообщение
" Aim_Deep написал: Haha so true. Casters can get away with it better tho because it counts spell damage crit etc from both weapons making it better than any staff. Dual darks was awesome then they added to totally ignore reflect. my babies :3 You have to be realistic about these things. Logen Ninefingers	Сообщение Bars#2689 13 сент. 2016 г., 12:25:17 Цитировать это сообщение
Eh i dunno, seems okay to me. Maybe its just the lack of GOOD dual-wielding skills. Lacerate is okay but it falls off because you cant get Area of Effect really, too many point from Duelist and Ranger, need more area for longer range hits and for large overlapping hits.. Dual Strike is decent as well. Once i get myself a corrupted Anvil with +4% Block Chance i should be Spell Block Capped as Dual Wield. Im currently at 71% with Pain Forged but ill over capped because Wings of Entropy and Versatile Combat. Im not sure what they could do to improve it, maybe they should give dual-wield an additional bonus modifier for leech rate making it slightly more tanky since smaller hits dont leech as well as bigger hits. Harvest sucks! But look at my decked out gear two weeks in! Labyrinth salt farm miner. "But my build diversity" , "Game is too hard!" - Meta drone playing the same 1-3 builds for years.	Сообщение Tin_Foil_Hat#0111 13 сент. 2016 г., 17:28:21 Цитировать это сообщение