PSA: Scorching Ray applies Fire Res debuff even with Ancestral Bond

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sidtherat написал:

nothing of this what you said can be found in the descriptions of relevant skills/mechanics

EE requires a HIT - and i know that (there is nothing about dealing damage with that hit)
AB - you cannot deal damage yourself (nothing about a hit - thats why Curse on Hit works)

yet you cannot apply EE with Orb of Storms while AB. why?

if 'it is obvious' - then the Scorching Ray should not apply its Res debuff neither as it 'doesnt make sense'


it is clear case of 'system' that is not really a system but case-by-case application and there are two contradicting cases. one of them is wrong. ill let GGG decide which

Ancestral bond doesn't require a hit and scorching ray doesn't hit, so it won't proc EE. It still provides it's debuff under ancestral bond because the debuff doesn't care if it does any damage.

EE needs hits that do elemental damage, and if you have ancestral bond your hits aren't doing any elemental damage.

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sidtherat написал:

this is your interpretation of what is going on and why

skill description says only 'being hit with elemental damage'. there is nothing about DOING damage (maybe because it would include DoTs, or maybe because that wasnt their intention).

unless Mark_GGG steps in and explains what is going on ill stick to the knowledge at hand: the skill descriptions

personal interpretations.. are cool and i can even agree with yours but these are only derived guesses

My interpretation is pretty darn accurate nonetheless. And I agree that it should be explained a lot better, but this a typical POE-disease.

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sidtherat написал:

Life Gain on Hit + Reckoning + Dyaduss Belt + Phys weapon. entire combo deals ZERO damage yet LGoH still applies. maybe it is a rounding error or something but ive found that interesting interaction a year ago or so

The reason this works is because "hitting" and "damaging" are two seperate things. LGoH will always provide the same gain regardless of damage dealt, because a "hit" of 0 damage still counts as a hit. The reason EE does not work that way because the resulting debuff is based on the type of damage the target "receives". If no damage is received... You know the story...

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sidtherat написал:

so why does the EE fail to work?

EE - enemies you HIT with ... (there is nothing about doing damage to them)

either EE is bugged with Ancestral Bond or Scorching Ray breaks the rules

No. Elemental Equilibrium:

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Enemies you hit with Elemental Damage temporarily get +25% Resistance to those Elements and -50% Resistance to other Elements

There is something about damage. You hit them, but you don't deal damage (i.e. you do not hit them with elemental damage) -> EE doesn't proc.

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j33bus написал:

EE needs hits that do elemental damage, and if you have ancestral bond your hits aren't doing any elemental damage.

have a GGG-sourced confirmation of this?

i know that it works that way in practice but the mechanics behind it can be.. anything. this what you and others say has no confirmation in the skill description



Life Gain on Hit + Ancestral Bond DOES replenish health despite dealing ZERO damage. so this mechanic you both are talking suddenly applies to EE but not to LGoH? Why?



you guys are starting to contradict eachother

0 fire damage is 0 damage is 0 is no-damage

i bet game has no issues knowing what damage mobs has been hit with and how much damage is being dealt to it after mitigation and mechanics


as stated above - id like to read GGG-sourced information on that. personal interpretations are just like personal law interpretations. cool stories and frequently correct but still only stories.

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sidtherat написал:

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j33bus написал:

EE needs hits that do elemental damage, and if you have ancestral bond your hits aren't doing any elemental damage.

have a GGG-sourced confirmation of this?

i know that it works that way in practice but the mechanics behind it can be.. anything. this what you and others say has no confirmation in the skill description

It does, see above.

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sidtherat написал:

Life Gain on Hit + Ancestral Bond DOES replenish health despite dealing ZERO damage. so this mechanic you both are talking suddenly applies to EE but not to LGoH? Why?

Because LGOH needs a hit, while EE needs a hit that deals elemental damage. Things can hit but deal no damage.

The EE keystone reads "Enemies you hit with elemental damage ......" It needs to both hit and do damage, LGoH just reads "life gained for each enemy hit by supported attack" doesn't need damage just the hit.

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sidtherat написал:

Life Gain on Hit + Ancestral Bond DOES replenish health despite dealing ZERO damage. so this mechanic you both are talking suddenly applies to EE but not to LGoH? Why?

The reason this works is because "hitting" and "damaging" are two seperate things. LGoH will always provide the same gain regardless of damage dealt. A "hit" of 0 damage still counts as a hit which is the base on which LGoH works.

The reason EE does not work that way because the resulting debuff is based on the type of damage the target "receives". If no damage is received EE is unable to proc. AB makes you deal 0 damage.

I'm pretty sure you'll find a link on the wiki that directs you to some older thread that adresses this case.

nothing in EE description says anything about dealing damage. it only talks about being hit with Elemental Damage. being hit with something and dealing damage != the same thing

you can be hit with Chaos damage for 10mil yet take ZERO damage due to CI

these concepts are not the same.

still waiting for GGG-sourced information

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sidtherat написал:

nothing in EE description says anything about dealing damage. it only talks about being hit with Elemental Damage. being hit with something and dealing damage != the same thing

Man, what kind of weed are you smoking - and can I get some?

You do not deal damage = you do not hit with any damage. EE doesn't proc when you hit with pure physical damage either.

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sidtherat написал:

nothing in EE description says anything about dealing damage. it only talks about being hit with Elemental Damage. being hit with something and dealing damage != the same thing

you can be hit with Chaos damage for 10mil yet take ZERO damage due to CI

these concepts are not the same.

still waiting for GGG-sourced information

Yeah, GGG confirmation would certainly be nice.

Please consider:

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sidtherat написал:

it only talks about being hit with Elemental Damage

You hit without elemental damage.

Being hit while being immune to the type of damage still means you have been hit. Divineshrines examplify this as well. You can even get knocked back by a "0" dmg hit.

You're right, these concepts are not the same. Immunity works different. You can even apply EE to Atziri during her minion phase, if you hit her with damage, eventhough you do not deal damage, because EE works outside of the realms of mitigation.

However, if the damage you inflict is "0" prior to any form of mitigation and immunity, it doesn't work anymore.