[3.14] Flame Golem 101 - Complete Guide To Golemancy, ✔️All Bosses Down, ✔️Necro, ✔️Elementalist

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FrozenMindz написал:

Hey I am using ur build currently and I have a few questions:

1)skin of the loyal with those sockets for flame golem cost like 3-4 exalts, do u think i should prioritize getting that asap?

2)leads into my second question which is what is the best upgrade path to get in terms of items? (like do i get the jewels first or the body etc.) thxxx!

I personally go for everything except SOTL and Chayula's presence, using a tabula or any random corrupted 6L that have one of possible combination that works (2R2G2B 1R2G3B 1R1G4B etc).

For example, my corrupted 6L 2R2G2B costed me 5C and works fine :)

Then SoTL, then chayula's presence.

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mika2salo написал:

Good combo for 2r2g2b is Golem -> Empower -> Gmp -> Slow proj -> Minion damage -> Echo

If you don't have a empower, fire penetration also works fine (i'd rather use that than empower in the beginning)

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tomatopotato написал:

14 Jewels:
9-10K EHP
~3min Uber Elder kill time

10 Jewels:
~12K EHP (14K+ w/ elite gear)
4~5min Uber Elder kill time

Things don't get questionable until you start pushing for 15+ jewels, since that's when you have to start giving up the good Life/ES nodes and/or level to 100. I highly recommend against it of course, but the option is there for people and makes it easy to build golems that out-damage TV specs.

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tomatopotato написал:

re: Spectres not worth it for Golementalist
I already mentioned this a few leagues back, but I urge you to try and play Elementalist as Elementalist, not as another version of Necromancer. You'll be able to draw more accurate conclusions and, more importantly, the Elementalist version of the build will become a lot simpler, more efficient, and more versatile:

I've been toying around with a tree like this: 14 sockets at 90, watcher's eye ES regen, 8 harmonies and 2 eminence. I figured the 60% increased buffs from golems can add some qol to regen (stone golem). Alhough, it would be simple to just socket two more harmonies if stacking enough golem cast speed.

https://pastebin.com/XmP7jBKG.

I also had an idea of using increased duration + raise spectre (in elder helmet for minion life), and grabbing Undying Evangelist for their proximity shield.

Also dropping the dual curse because of the 80% reduced effectiveness. Maybe even dropping curse entirely since Combustion comes with a nice -19% res.

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danireySvQ написал:

Thanks a lot, too useful info! :)

Hello :)

Np, glad it helped ;)

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Hey I am using ur build currently and I have a few questions:

1)skin of the loyal with those sockets for flame golem cost like 3-4 exalts, do u think i should prioritize getting that asap?

2)leads into my second question which is what is the best upgrade path to get in terms of items? (like do i get the jewels first or the body etc.) thxxx!

"

I personally go for everything except SOTL and Chayula's presence, using a tabula or any random corrupted 6L that have one of possible combination that works (2R2G2B 1R2G3B 1R1G4B etc).

For example, my corrupted 6L 2R2G2B costed me 5C and works fine :)

Then SoTL, then chayula's presence.

Hey :)

I also thing that strengthening other gear first is more important. Try to get high EHP (HP + ES) and cap call resistances (or get chaos res very high in league) first. Any 6-link is also first priority and good elder minion support helmet with 1-2 supports if you can find one for cheap.

Later you can get Sotl and Chayula in mentioned order.

2r2g2b Sotl is 20-30c so you can get is lot faster if you want.

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What are you basing these conclusions off of? They don't seem correct to me and I've played, not just tested, both types.

re: Flame vs. Lightning clearspeed
Basically the same: video

You probably think Lightning is low because you were testing with some variation of my boss-focused setup. I like boss killing, so that's what I optimize for. If you use a general setup, Flame and Lightning aren't that different in both clearspeed and bossing.


re: Lightning worse vs. moving boss?
If you play Lightning, you'll see almost every single boss in the game stays within range of most, if not all the orbs. This is particularly true of POE's endgame bosses. There's always something for the orbs to hit, whether you're doing Guardians, Shaper, Uber Atziri, or Uber Elder. Again, I'm scratching my head wondering why you think Flame is better for bossing. And speaking of bossing, let's steer it back to the original topic about whether Specs are worth your time on Elementalist...


re: Spectres not worth it for Golementalist
I already mentioned this a few leagues back, but I urge you to try and play Elementalist as Elementalist, not as another version of Necromancer. You'll be able to draw more accurate conclusions and, more importantly, the Elementalist version of the build will become a lot simpler, more efficient, and more versatile:

Shaper vs. Golems+Spectres: video
Shaper vs. Pure Golems: video

DPS is basically the same, maybe even an edge to the pure golem config. Only difference is the golem+spec config needs 10 gem slots to accomplish what pure golems do in 6.

Hi :)

I tested some of you older boss kill setups and wasn't very impressed with guardians that moved alot, stationary bosses died very fast though. I tried clear version briefly but Lightning Golems felt slower. Lightning Golems are next best Golems, very close to Flame Golems but when you have to setup them either for boss killing to get faster boss kill time or clear setup to get near Flame Golem clear time and losing boss kill, it really feels like they are missing a role unless talking about very fast stationary boss kill setup.

New bosses are more stationary which has increased Lighting Golems effectiveness and I'm happy that we have at least 2x useful Golems now. I'm just having hard time figuring best color combo between clear-speed <-> boss kill 6-link. for clear-speed GMP is pretty much needed and theres not really any green gem that that boost lightning orbs damage?

Damage is pretty close in the videos but now adding Combustion to Flame Golems lowers fire res -20% for TV specs damage. This is major buff in damage and is especially visible with Necromancer. Elementalist should also do significantly more damage now with TV specs.

TV specs can also be used with chance taunt gem as they actually hit. I think only Stone and Ice Golems have useful melee attacks and 2x golems hit lot less than 3-4x TVs + AG. I have been recently testing taunt and have been pretty impressed how well it works.

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If you don't have a empower, fire penetration also works fine (i'd rather use that than empower in the beginning)

Yep, good point :)

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I've been toying around with a tree like this: 14 sockets at 90, watcher's eye ES regen, 8 harmonies and 2 eminence. I figured the 60% increased buffs from golems can add some qol to regen (stone golem). Alhough, it would be simple to just socket two more harmonies if stacking enough golem cast speed.

https://pastebin.com/XmP7jBKG.

I also had an idea of using increased duration + raise spectre (in elder helmet for minion life), and grabbing Undying Evangelist for their proximity shield.

Also dropping the dual curse because of the 80% reduced effectiveness. Maybe even dropping curse entirely since Combustion comes with a nice -19% res.

Hi :)

How many Specters are you using? I can count only 1x from the gear and tree. 1x from Bones of Ullr and 1x from tree could help keeping shield raised. Really like the idea for proximity shield.

Change to curses on boss is coming later, maybe next league. Atm curses are great at keeping boss minions at bay, so I would leave Temp Chains at least. Ele Weak is nice boost but auras can be used for defense as well. Aspect of Spider worked against bosses nicely when I tested in briefly.

Tree and gear looks pretty good. I would use only Harmonies, though.

Hello,

Just a quick question about golems and incursions. How are golems for full clearing yellow tier map incursions? I've heard that minion kills don't proc the extra time from killing the architect. Is this true and does it make the timing tight?

Thx.

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DrHarvey12 написал:

Hello,

Just a quick question about golems and incursions. How are golems for full clearing yellow tier map incursions? I've heard that minion kills don't proc the extra time from killing the architect. Is this true and does it make the timing tight?

Thx.

i am currently able to fully clear incursions up to tier 13 (didn't try higher yet) without issue. Some layout are a bit harder, but roughly i have no issue with only using golems.

I never paid attention to the timer, but iirc it doesn't increase that much / doesn't at all while killing the architect, but i tend to kill at least 20-30% of incursions before architect anyway

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Anakhon написал:

i am currently able to fully clear incursions up to tier 13 (didn't try higher yet) without issue. Some layout are a bit harder, but roughly i have no issue with only using golems.

I never paid attention to the timer, but iirc it doesn't increase that much / doesn't at all while killing the architect, but i tend to kill at least 20-30% of incursions before architect anyway

Thx - that sounds promising. The golem jewels seem really cheap atm. That's why I thought that there may have been problems with them. I'll see if I can afford the main ones!

Hello, i build like ur guide. great Dmg so far but i die always and that in t9 maps.

Can u look my char? Eventuell u find my fail.

Thx

GreeTz

First time running this as an Elementalist - anyone know if Paragon of Calamity or Pendulum of Destruction actually has any effect on golems?

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DrHarvey12 написал:

Hello,

Just a quick question about golems and incursions. How are golems for full clearing yellow tier map incursions? I've heard that minion kills don't proc the extra time from killing the architect. Is this true and does it make the timing tight?

Thx.

"

i am currently able to fully clear incursions up to tier 13 (didn't try higher yet) without issue. Some layout are a bit harder, but roughly i have no issue with only using golems.

I never paid attention to the timer, but iirc it doesn't increase that much / doesn't at all while killing the architect, but i tend to kill at least 20-30% of incursions before architect anyway

"

Thx - that sounds promising. The golem jewels seem really cheap atm. That's why I thought that there may have been problems with them. I'll see if I can afford the main ones!

Hello :)

Golems are enough to clear incursions to very high tier alone. I usually run into the rooms with movement flask, take one smaller hit and all minions teleport next to me wiping whole room clear. It's bit risky but i have usually lots of time left after full clear.

This league Solar Guards are very viable as its more focused about clearing packs of mid-tier mobs rather than strong solo enemies. very nice combo would be :

Armor : Golems -> Empower -> GMP -> Minion Damage -> Echo -> Combustion(for -20% fire ress and ignite)

Helmet : Solar Guards -> Cont Dest -> Echo > Minion res -> Minion Damage(Helmet) -> Conc Effect(Helmet) -> Immolation(Helmet)

Immolation becomes good as Golems have 50%+35% chance to ignite enemies and apply -20% fire res debuff. Now Immolate will add 7th link extra damage to SGs.

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Hello, i build like ur guide. great Dmg so far but i die always and that in t9 maps.

Can u look my char? Eventuell u find my fail.

Thx

GreeTz

Thanks for support :)

Elementalist is pretty dependent defense mechanics as it can't get high enough block chance to really matter. Elementalist needs to be pretty careful that EHP (HP and ES) is high enough and all damage prevent working right.

You setup is very different from my default. There are few gem setups you should always be running even when heavily customizing :

HIGH EHP

Try to upgrade some of the gear :
- Crystal belt with 110 ES (Sotl gives 100% increased ES, so ES is better than HP)
- Amulet with (40+ ES, 40+ HP, resistances)
- Rings and gloves look ok
Try to get little chaos res on every part of rare gear. Chaos res is pretty high this league and without Presence you should stack it on other gear pieces.

TEMPORAL CHAINS

Temp Chains is about best defense in the game against all non-boss enemies. You should always have Temp Chains(20/20) -> Blasphemy (20/20) -> Enhance 3 running in preferrably +1 level item. Try to socket this combo in Vertex and normal mobs can barely touch you ;)

OTHER DEFENSES / GEMS

Your CWDT setups is in wrong order. CWDT casts from left-up, right-up, right-down, left-down order. Place Phase Run last in the CWDT order as now Convocation cancels Phare Run as it casts after it.

Your golems are immune to elemental damage, so why run ele resistance jewel with them?

You can run "Death Doors" boots to gain "immune to bleeding" as your already immune to elemental statuses. It helps alot against some bosses and the boots are good in stats too.

Your tree looks ok, and gear is pretty good in general. If you fix your defenses you should have smooth sailing up to t15+ anymore ;)

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First time running this as an Elementalist - anyone know if Paragon of Calamity or Pendulum of Destruction actually has any effect on golems?

Hi :)

Paragon and Pendulum don't affect Golems.

Paragon is purely for own defense as it lower damage taken.

Pendulum increases curses range by 75% every 5 secs, so it can both boost defense and DPS by increasing Temp Chains and Ele Weaks range. The increased elemental damage doesn't affect Golems.

Shaper of Desolation and Beacon of Ruin in theory boost Golems damage by shocking enemies, but I had no luck with my tests against environment / PVP so I'm pretty cautious to recommend running them.

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mika2salo написал:

I tested some of you older boss kill setups and wasn't very impressed with guardians that moved alot, stationary bosses died very fast though. I tried clear version briefly but Lightning Golems felt slower. Lightning Golems are next best Golems, very close to Flame Golems but when you have to setup them either for boss killing to get faster boss kill time or clear setup to get near Flame Golem clear time and losing boss kill, it really feels like they are missing a role unless talking about very fast stationary boss kill setup.

Perhaps you misread what I wrote. Using similar mapping setups, Lightning and Flame are basically the same for both clearspeed and bossing. I provided a video clearpeed comparison earlier. Now here's a bossing comparison vs. Minotaur:

Flame: video
~29 second kill

Lightning: video
~25 second kill

I can produce the same results for every single Guardian. Note, Flame had the advantage with a +2 SOTL, while Lightning had +1. I didn't count Bone Offering setup time for Flame either.

Also if I recall correctly, you said you tested with a Tabula, using your Necro tree and mostly Necro gem-links. That's not a legit test.

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New bosses are more stationary which has increased Lighting Golems effectiveness and I'm happy that we have at least 2x useful Golems now. I'm just having hard time figuring best color combo between clear-speed <-> boss kill 6-link. for clear-speed GMP is pretty much needed and theres not really any green gem that that boost lightning orbs damage?

This stationary vs. non-stationary boss thing is an non-issue. I'm confused why you bring this up, considering that storm orbs and TV spectre totems basically have the same range. Do you think Flame+TVs are also less effective against moving bosses?

Repeating to make sure I'm not misunderstood: You don't have to change setups to kill bosses with Lightning at the same speed as Flame. I only do it because I like bossing and I play HC (no logout macro), so it's actually worth my time to optimize as much as possible. Again:

GMP-Link Mapping
Flame and Lightning = similar speed

GMP-Link Bossing
Flame and Lightning = similar speed

Boss-Optimized Link
To be honest, I'm not sure anymore. My guess is Lightning is still slightly ahead here, since there's no need to manage Magma Ball positioning. I've been meaning to try Flame with a single-target setup for a while, but just haven't gotten around to it. I might try later today and post results with FG-MinionDmg-Echo-Controlled-EleFocus-Combustion.

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Damage is pretty close in the videos but now adding Combustion to Flame Golems lowers fire res -20% for TV specs damage. This is major buff in damage and is especially visible with Necromancer. Elementalist should also do significantly more damage now with TV specs.

20% is not a major buff (effectively only like a 15% More multiplier after you factor EE, curses, and inherent TV debuff).

As Golementalist, it's even less significant since your TV specs do about 30% DPS of legit Necro Spectres at best. With Combusion defuff, that 30% becomes... ~35%? Even worse if you're only running 2-3 specs.

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TV specs can also be used with chance taunt gem as they actually hit. I think only Stone and Ice Golems have useful melee attacks and 2x golems hit lot less than 3-4x TVs + AG. I have been recently testing taunt and have been pretty impressed how well it works.

Going to assume you meant Abyss Jewel, not gem. Chance to Taunt is a placebo imo. Even in the best case scenario, you'd only have 16% total chance in the double-Abyss socket belt (unless you're willing to sacrifice more DPS/Harmony in your tree. On top of that, endgame bosses basically ignore it. If Taunt is that important to you, a 1-link Decoy Totem would probably be more effective.

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kayella написал:

I've been toying around with a tree like this: 14 sockets at 90, watcher's eye ES regen, 8 harmonies and 2 eminence. I figured the 60% increased buffs from golems can add some qol to regen (stone golem). Alhough, it would be simple to just socket two more harmonies if stacking enough golem cast speed.

https://pastebin.com/XmP7jBKG.

Although it uses some items that don't appear on the market often, it seems interesting. Looks like you still have room on your tree to grab Quick Recovery and Growth and Decay if you want to go hard on the regen route. I do tend to grab ZO on my trees after picking up Shav's, but I've never focused on regen this much. That said, I've seen it work for others: https://youtu.be/Uo8LdgwEtHU

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I also had an idea of using increased duration + raise spectre (in elder helmet for minion life), and grabbing Undying Evangelist for their proximity shield.

Would definitely be interested in seeing this. Laugh in the face of tentacle slams.

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Also dropping the dual curse because of the 80% reduced effectiveness. Maybe even dropping curse entirely since Combustion comes with a nice -19% res.

Dropping curses and using Combustion seems like apples to oranges to me. It would definitely give you room to toss in Kaom's Roots though if you wanted to.