GGG, Rework character resistances

A bump/necro of support for the sentiment.

What makes it even worse for me is how a jump of 25% from zero (or less ...) on any resistance doesn't feel worth much (<= 3/4 factor), but a drop of 25% from max is literally double damage. The point where it starts being worth caring is rather hard for me to determine, especially since it seems to come before the high early-game gear turnover rate goes down. And then it makes gear a nightmare puzzle, where any one piece changing can utterly ruin the whole setup. As a whole, it's more frustrating than anything else.

Don't forget the absurd amount of burst chaos damage everywhere.

It's nice to see someone else bringing this up (even if this thread is a bit of a necro). I often feel like certain game mechanics in Path of Exile were simply included because they are "what Diablo 2 did" or are "traditional markers" of an ARPG. The way in which resistances are handled is, I believe, one such of these instances.

As someone previously mentioned in this thread, it doesn't feel particularly good to be spontaneously nerfed after the Kitava kill, and more importantly it is absolutely necessary to cap your resistances. It is not a choice. You will die, regularly, otherwise. Combined with the experience penalty for death (another mechanic I have certain...feelings about, which I will not go into here) this means that you, as a player, are pigeonholed into stacking resistances on many pieces of your gear.

This is simply not fun. Not for me, at least, and not for any of my friends who I have spoken to who have also played this game. It is not fun to progress in a game, kill a big boss, and then feel (and measurably be) suddenly...weaker? That is exactly the opposite of what I should feel after murdering a god!

Make resistances rarer if you must. But remove resistance penalties, and eliminate the need to have every resistance capped lest a player is looking to be instagibbed. As it currently stands, it is far too easy to receive insane damage spikes, even with careful play and capped - or slightly overcapped - resistances.

Don't adhere to tradition for tradition's sake. That benefits no one.

Resistances system is a plain copy paste of what D2 had, which was far from ideal.

Chaos resistance and damage are even worse, it's obviously a copy of D2's poison stuff, except that in D2 where were no poison burst skills, only dots and thus poison resistances weren't common but you didn't explode instantly to poison damage either.
Here chaos resistances are still uncommon yet the game is filled to the brim with instant burst chaos skills on top of degen.

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Raudram написал:

Resistances system is a plain copy paste of what D2 had, which was far from ideal.

Chaos resistance and damage are even worse, it's obviously a copy of D2's poison stuff, except that in D2 where were no poison burst skills, only dots and thus poison resistances weren't common but you didn't explode instantly to poison damage either.
Here chaos resistances are still uncommon yet the game is filled to the brim with instant burst chaos skills on top of degen.

I guess you haven't tried running The Matron's Den.

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Docbp87 написал:

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Raudram написал:

Resistances system is a plain copy paste of what D2 had, which was far from ideal.

Chaos resistance and damage are even worse, it's obviously a copy of D2's poison stuff, except that in D2 where were no poison burst skills, only dots and thus poison resistances weren't common but you didn't explode instantly to poison damage either.
Here chaos resistances are still uncommon yet the game is filled to the brim with instant burst chaos skills on top of degen.

I guess you haven't tried running The Matron's Den.

Nah I stopped shortly after 1.10 which killed the game for me, did some uber Diablos though. Overall though, there were some dangerous poison attacks from Andariel, Lord of Seis and probably something else I don't recall but nothing like instant big burst nukes we have here.

Could swap to a tiered diminishing returns system.
eg. Up to 50% raw resist gives same final value. Raw values between 50% and 100% have their excess above 50% halved, so 100% raw comes to 75% final resist. Then have 75% to 90% require 3% raw for 1% final. 4% to 1% for 90% to 95% and 5% to 1% for 95% to 100%.
That puts 100% final resist requiring 190% raw resist (unless I can't count). Numbers obviously flexible.
Such a system would remove the need for resistance caps (which in turn removes the odd issues of having large unusable resistance bonuses when you don't have the cap modifiers and vice versa) and arbitrary story gated reductions to your resistance values.

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Tyrrlan написал:

It's nice to see someone else bringing this up (even if this thread is a bit of a necro). I often feel like certain game mechanics in Path of Exile were simply included because they are "what Diablo 2 did" or are "traditional markers" of an ARPG. The way in which resistances are handled is, I believe, one such of these instances.

As someone previously mentioned in this thread, it doesn't feel particularly good to be spontaneously nerfed after the Kitava kill, and more importantly it is absolutely necessary to cap your resistances. It is not a choice. You will die, regularly, otherwise. Combined with the experience penalty for death (another mechanic I have certain...feelings about, which I will not go into here) this means that you, as a player, are pigeonholed into stacking resistances on many pieces of your gear.

This is simply not fun. Not for me, at least, and not for any of my friends who I have spoken to who have also played this game. It is not fun to progress in a game, kill a big boss, and then feel (and measurably be) suddenly...weaker? That is exactly the opposite of what I should feel after murdering a god!

Make resistances rarer if you must. But remove resistance penalties, and eliminate the need to have every resistance capped lest a player is looking to be instagibbed. As it currently stands, it is far too easy to receive insane damage spikes, even with careful play and capped - or slightly overcapped - resistances.

Don't adhere to tradition for tradition's sake. That benefits no one.

You make some good points, but i have a hard time seeing how to balance this? It is really a two edged sword in the sense that if resistance is in the game, this needs to be taken into account when balancing the game which in turn would require people to get resistances.

If balance didnt factor resistance, then resistance would be an extremely powerful way of increasing effective health which could only be solved by either a very low cap or very low contribution from resistance at which point it really would be a useless stat.

As i see it, resistance is there as a gear check while also ensuring that items that dont have dmg + life have value.

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mhgala написал:

You make some good points, but i have a hard time seeing how to balance this? It is really a two edged sword in the sense that if resistance is in the game, this needs to be taken into account when balancing the game which in turn would require people to get resistances.

If balance didnt factor resistance, then resistance would be an extremely powerful way of increasing effective health which could only be solved by either a very low cap or very low contribution from resistance at which point it really would be a useless stat.

As i see it, resistance is there as a gear check while also ensuring that items that dont have dmg + life have value.

I do agree that it is a lot harder to balance. Which is why I'm mostly in favor of removing resistance penalties (though I didn't make that as clear in my post, admittedly). In other words - I would be fine with leaving resistance capping/overcapping functioning the way it currently does, but the actual penalties inflicted each time Kitava is killed should be removed.

"But this will make it so much easier to hit resistance cap!"

Yes. That's the point. Frankly, soft-capping resistances (in other words, reaching 75% resistance) SHOULD be much easier. Why? Because as I mentioned before, it is necessary to soft-cap resistances in order to not instantly die in the endgame. Having so much of our gear be required to focus on resistances is just not that interesting when it comes to gearing. It's not interesting because it's not a choice. You simply cannot progress your character in a meaningful manner without having capped resists.

Having to focus on gear that merely comprises a bunch of bland defensive stats is the opposite of what a compelling gearing meta in an ARPG is about. A compelling gearing meta should be focused on making tough decisions based upon the unique properties of items that change or add to the way your character interacts with the game in a meaningful manner, or provide additional options in combat. A compelling gearing meta is not "Man I sure would like to use this interesting Unique item that provides me some cool options, but I need to stack a bunch of rare gear to get enough life/resistance to not get one-shot."

I'm not saying that defensive stats should be entirely trivial to get. Nor am I saying that characters should come out of the gate being defensively ready for the endgame. That would defeat the purpose of much of endgame gearing. But Path of Exile as a whole is far too defensively focused when it comes to the gear characters are required to get in order to progress, and it makes the process of gearing up feel extremely bland and generic.

Hey guys, tell me what do you think about this math

ID = initial damage dealt
FD = final damage taken
res = resistance
RD = absolute damage reduction
%RD = percentage of damage reduction (current soft cap 75%)


FD = 40*ID/(40+Res)

DR = ID-FD

%DR = 100-100*FD/ID

This way, if resistance is (1-59) the %RD would be a little higher than res but then it would start a diminishing return requiring a res=120 to reach the current cap of %RD=75% and a res=360 to reach %RD=90%

The numbers can be tweaked a bit of course (40 may be too arbitrary) but the formula is quite simple and easy to adjust and then we can remove Kitava's curse from the game