VP was never the problem

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shaunika90 написал:

so, if VP is not an issue at all because you can just build defense instead.
then how come it needs a nerf? you're almost saying that VP isnt even that good. and yet you advocate nerfing it :P how does that work?

because the game isnt balanced around what I think, its balanced around what we think. Look at this thread, read the forums for the past 1.5 years, general consensus is that you need vaal pact to have a functioning build. theres probably more people playing vaal pact than seriously investing in any other defense method. If everyone playing this game was me then it would be fine, and Ive said that many times that in my world vp isnt a problem. But then Im not really one to focus farm high end bosses, Ill very occasionally go and fight one, but I dont like running those things dry till im bored of them, feels like the game loses something when u do that. Im all about mapping, not dedicated boss farming. In my world its fine, its balanced, but its not balanced when you look at the wider trends the game is balanced around, no one gives a shit what I think of it when it comes to buffing and nerfing the game, Im just 1 opinion amoung 10,000s. In the world of boss killing its cheeseball as fk, just stand there and leech through everything without moving.

Its a degenerate mechanic, theyve designed a game with a whole range of defenses and boss encounters and then theres 1 node that basically invalidates almost all of them. Of course theyre going to nerf it, it needs nerfed, this thread itself is evidence of that. Just because I dont personally like vp doesnt change that. Its still there, its still a crazy leechtank node. I dont like running 4 dps flasks with 1 life flask either, but they still nerfed dps flasks because they were overpowered and overused, and I accept they were right to do it. Theres plenty of nerfs that have effected me and ones that havent effected me that Ive been critical of, I can remove myself from my perspective and look at the game as a whole, take in everyone elses opinions. This nerf I agree with, and theres been plenty of nerfs that have hit things I do that Ive agreed with. VP has both the overused issue and its actually got moments of cheeseball that are bad even without its popularity, I feel like any objective view on the game atm can see that.

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windxp написал:

So we went from non-VP leech being unusable trash on every class other than Slayer, to leech as a whole being unusable on every class other than Slayer. Why not just do something sensible like revert VP to how it was a long time ago and/or make non-VP leech not utter trash?

Hell, even if you had just not nerfed ES into the ground so hard, since ES has a higher pool to begin with it would make non-instant leech somewhat usable due to the pool giving it a high leech/sec.

I think GGG is making the mistake of thinking anyone actually plays the game for mechanically skilled boss fights. They don't. The only fight that even remotely requires skill is uber atziri. Everything else is "dodge the highly telegraphed skills". People play VP because they don't want to have to meticulously handle some repetitive fight that they might be doing 50 or 100 times in one day.

I also won't be buying a supporter pack this league if they don't revert this or reveal something that makes non-slayer leech remotely usable.

...to facetank content.

I think you forgot the bolded part, and that's the fallacy of your post.

Repetitive, you say? Repetition is the name of the game in this genre. Also, if a mechanic is so broken that it allows you to do all content hitting a button with your forehead, both hands tied behind your back and never moving an inch and tanking every single attack in the entire game, you could say there's a balance issue.

Why do you even advocate this kind of gameplay? Don't you like challenges? You say having to dodge attacks is meticulous and repetitive. So then what about doing the same boss 100 times knowing it can't even scratch you? I'd be yawning all the way through.

The best time you have on every game is right at the start when you don't know anything and you're struggling to do the most simple things. Knowledge is a double-edged blade. When I find a way to trivialize a game I play, I lose interest mere minutes after, and that's why I'm so against VP and why I love temp leagues so much. Change is good, keep it fresh.

To each their own, just my 2 cents.

I am not a fan of VP, but the new change of VP will decrease the build diversity once again.

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CaptainWARLORD написал:

VP allowed for budget builds to have some way of staying alive. Now it's fucked and everyone has to build around Totem/Minions/Traps/Ranged and whatnot.

Or Eva + Dodge, Armour + Regen, Armour + Block, Armour + Eva, Armour + Eva + Block etc. You just can't facetank Shaper and stuff with them though.

If they leave slayer alone, "true" melee builds like cyclone or cleave will still be strong af.

You are right with the VP downsides though, for melee builds I always preferred slayer leech as it's more versatile.

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Char1983 написал:

Wait, what is the problem with mirrored gear then? You can just not play with it - your choice.

And i don't. So why you people, want's to nerf vaal pact?
I don't like be forced to play unwanted builds. I hate playing melee, totem, mines, traps. Before i had choice, now i don't. So no funding for GGG.

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CaptainWARLORD написал:

I only kept some items so I could list them for 1 alt, so people would see my char's name on top of every page of poe.trade.

Well that's...really petty, actually. But hey, you do you.



Vaal Pact was a problem, it was also a solution to another problem that made VP a problem in the first place. Yeah, that's not supposed to make sense, i just made this phrase up so it'd sound deep.
But seriously though, while i don't think you're supposed to be able to leech through Shaper's beam, damage spikes on regular maps, often not even coming from bosses but from, for example, random reflect mobs, or (if a map has enough dmg modifiers) just from any white monsters, are a problem with the game IMO.



Threads like this one are probably the reason the new VP moment didn't get edited out. They wanted the inevitable sh**storm to break out early, weeks before actual patchnotes go live.
While it is fairly logical, it makes me worried about what else they're planning to include in the balance patch.
I won't mind the VP nerf much if it comes with non-VP leech buffs, or reflect rework, or some general love for builds that, previously, were heavily invested in VP.

But i could also easily envision a patch where reflect, non-VP leech, etc stay the same, Zerker and Slayer are nerfed alongside VP, and the majority of builds are totems or trappers, with melee and leech-dependent spell builds struggling for the entire league.

I won't quit the game even if this prediction comes true, but i most certainly wouldn't want it to.

lol....guys pls cry more
VP is unfair for ages. It should have never been that good imo. Makes the game tooo easy.
I hope they fix this now.

People will always cry

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CaptainWARLORD написал:

Since you appear to be an expert about something you don't even play, let me fill you in how VP really plays.

VP on its own is something you must build around from the start the moment you decide to use it. There's no half-assing it. You either commit or you don't...

You are full of shit, seriously. Vaal pact is ONE POINT. And you don't build around it. You use leech and are near vaal pact? GET IT. You don't have to bother will leech rate, maximum leech rate anymore, and lose a few percent life regen. Blood rage? Unsocket, then socket back in.

God forbid, you have to gear damage for more sustain? Non-vp and non-slayers have to build damage, defense AND sustain.

Kiting. This is some next level bullshit right here. GET DAMAGE, and you don't have to kite anymore, you can facetank. Degen mechanis are just as bad for non-vp and non-slayers. they occasionally have it harder, because they ACTUALLY HAVE TO DEAL WITH LEECH RATE BUILD-UP. And a few % won't cut it. Got 5% life reg per second? Up to 20seconds of kiting isn't viable.

And don't get me started on map mods. vaal pact gets denied by ONE map mod, and it is a rare mod. No leech. that's it. Leech and regen get countered by no reg, no leech, reduced recovery, AND -defense mods, as you usually rely on one or more defense mechanics.

Also one shots are prevalent because of vp. same reason for the insane amounts of boss and special rare monster hp (essence and breach) after poison became a thing. ggg eventually balances around these mechanics. and this one-shit shitfest is the result of vp being able to leech form 1 to 100 in a fraction of a second.

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CaptainWARLORD написал:

Since you appear to be an expert about something you don't even play, let me fill you in how VP really plays.

I dont play vp on life builds, I have played it in life builds, past tense, but generally dont. I have a vp life build in the 10 day atm and its shit.

Ive played an absolute ton of vaal pact builds, ci vaal pact builds, Ive played with vaal pact a gargantuan amount. I dont play it on LIFE builds...

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CaptainWARLORD написал:

Any fight that has any form of DoT becomes a nightmare if you can't attack. Good example are Core Malachai's ring DoT, Chimera's adds and Shaper's Vortexes.

...for this reason, its horrible. Ive played ci melee vaal pact since open beta.

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CaptainWARLORD написал:

This also means that you skip most defenses for damage because that is the drawback.

the drawback is that you skip defenses, plow all your points into damage and still end up with a viable build? You dont see why that might actually be a good reason to nerf it in a game where damage has become increasingly out of control?

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CaptainWARLORD написал:

Also, it feels really good once you reach the point where you can tank the beam without flasks.

yeah because ur breaking the game, theres a fight with mechanics you are supposed to play against and you just ignore them through the terrible downside of stacking nothing but damage and then just standing there holding down the button. Breaking the game is the point but you also have to respect that when something is broken and has been broken for ages and everyone is doing it then it gets nerfed to something that isnt broken.

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CaptainWARLORD написал:

Just look at the right side of the tree. See any regen nodes there? Oh, you mean Shadow's 2% cluster? Whaaaaaaaaat. Amazing!

My rangers hug the right side and generally have 3.6% regen, without taking that 2% in the shadow. Heart of oak, golems blood and master of the arena.

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CaptainWARLORD написал:

VP allowed for budget builds to have some way of staying alive. Now it's fucked and everyone has to build around Totem/Minions/Traps/Ranged and whatnot.

come on you know youre exaggerating, or you should know at any rate. coil is 1 chaos, starkonjas is 1 chaos, youre belt, gloves, boots, even your rings and weapons now days, you can get your entire character for about 1-4 chaos per slot, link ur items with self found fusing and play an up in mobs faces melee ranger that obliterates maps all day and never dies. VP allowed players with low defensive game knowledge to remain players with low defensive game knowledge by simply taking that node for every build then just stacking damage, life and resists on the tree and gear. Its just a "dumb down the game" node, nothing to do with cash budget, its a budget node for peoples brains so they dont have to spend time thinking and learning.

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CaptainWARLORD написал:

GGG stripped us of defenses, but made up for it by adding more and more damage.

you stripped yourselves of defenses and then just stacked damage because that node allowed you to. You can get more armour, evasion, block, dodge etc now than ever before, its easier to stack those things than its ever been. Ppl just havent noticed because theres 1 keystone on the tree that bypasses the need for them.

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CaptainWARLORD написал:

Evasion is at least better than Armour by a large margin, yet it also requires some real investment to be worth it. Dodge on the other hand...

What's wrong with dodge for eva chars? Pretty powerful for 1 or 4 nodes investment.

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CaptainWARLORD написал:

Armour is shit, you are better off stacking flat phys reduction and Endurance charges.

That's what forum edgelords always tell me. My ingame experience is different.

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CaptainWARLORD написал:

Block is still OP, proven by Grandmasters as well.

Max block is very strong but requires huge investment.