Why dedicate my time if I can lose all my XP with a death penalty?

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dwqrf#0717 написал:

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BK2710#6123 написал:

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NewAxProductions#3692 написал:

This isn't diablo 4 kid, level 100 in this game is actually an achievement and they should keep it that way.

I'm grinding blue t15 maps where i can sleep whilst clearing it all, nice achievement. I feel challenged by this amazing difficulty that challenges me as a player... the challenge not to engage with any hard game content so I can safely farm xp.

If you view 100 as an achievement then that is a skill issue tbh.

Aren't you one of the people complaining everyday about XP loss because you die over and over in T1-8 maps ?

How can you complain about the level 100 NOT being an achievement when you can't achieve it ?

Are you going to argue that time spent with discipline isn't challenging ?

Even when following build guides and buying gear you can't stop dying and can't focus on the goals you NEED to reach so much ?

I genuinely don't understand.

I am complaining about it because it is stupid, I will not repeat all the reasons. My more casual friends quit due to it and I will as well as a result since my friends stopped (why play alone when I can have fun playing with others?). I am not an isolated case, word of mouth and social circles are THE strongest marketing and driving forces of gaining playerbases.

Personally I don't struggle at all, I did hitless sekhemas I am gaining more xp by the day and farm t15-t16 with no issue.

I am capable of seeing things from the perspective of others and I see a problem, thus I provide that feedback. It's not about me but the longevity of the game.

Personally, I see level 100 as a joke. You farmed low level enemies for eternity, congratulations. It is not an entertaining challenge, it is stressful like a job. I get distracted by something important and die? Hours lost. It is not something I learn anything from or gain from beating either.

The game needs more content for level 100, strong build, characters. Real challenges that reward insane gear, cheat tier even. Hitless sekhemas is very fun, it is difficult and you prepare for it. You lose? Nothing happens... (well, unless you die) so try again.
You can practice regular runs until you want to tackle it and once you beat it the reward is insane.

These things should be all over the game for players like me and I presume you as well as you seem to want a challenge. I want to be challenged and forced to make a strong build, if I play glass cannon make bosses or areas with unavoidable chip damage forcing me to upgrade my gear to maintain my dps but ever so slightly increase survivability so that this non avoidable damage does not kill (so long as I take no damage elsewhere).

I want others to enjoy the game who are less skilled and/or have less time.
I believe that players who get rewarded even by not being the best (we must separate the level of reward between high end challenge of course) will have a sense of satisfaction and closure, things proven to boost retention and return rates a lot. These players will return due to their enjoyment and as a result get better at their own pace and willing to tackle the harder challenge that I would deem a real challenge.. and fail over and over until they make it as they do not lose it all on a loss.
Casuals love dark souls, it's almost a meme to mention it, because it is seen as an achievement to beat it but dying does not really cost you anything. The challenge of the game is the enjoyment, the game encourages you to try. This is currently missing from PoE2.
Allowing mistakes to be made in preparation for the max level content, the real hard stuff, challenge modes for greater rewards, which serve as additional lessons so players become better and more knowledgeable.

I gain nothing from gating the game from people less skilled, I stand to gain by advocating for design which encourages learning and playing rather than punishing mistakes. Time lost by dying is already a penalty.

Surely you recall the countless suggestions that were made to reward good play, additional rewards and what not, in earlier threads and in here as well? There is no reason to punish those not as good when you can instead reward those who are good. These rewards also serve as encouragement for others to get better because they stand to gain from trying, not lose from trying.

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drkekyll#1294 написал:

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BK2710#6123 написал:

I'm closing in on 100 ever so slowly and all I can say this is the most mind numbing easy game I have ever played. ... I wish I could spend this time doing something more fun in the game but the point of a rpg is maxing a character, it is the baseline expectation when playing one and if an obvious expectation is not met your product fails, simple.

I'm pretty sure the point of a game is to have fun however you go about that especially in what is, at least for most people, a single player experience. If this is the most mind numbing easy game you have ever played, I'm not sure why you play it. Do something you actually enjoy...

I dont even know why he is on forum complaining about xp loss on death if he thinks the game is that ez

You know this is early access right? People typing in here like this is all the game will ever be and the content isn't enough to justify the lvl 100 grind. Some of us played PoE1 before we even had 4 acts pre 1.0....trust me you'll get your content but you'll still cry.

The death penalty doesn’t actually stop new players (like me) from reaching level 100 or making mistakes. Instead, it discourages us from even wanting to play the game fairly. A challenge is something you work to overcome. Yes, there are setbacks, but losing a map after (for example) three chances without losing any experience would still be just as frustrating.

Every death feels bad.

For the health and longevity of the game—not just for hardcore fans and veterans—it would be much better to adjust the death penalty system. For example, maps could allow 3-6 attempts with a 2-4% experience loss per death. This would still add up to more than 10% if you keep dying, but if you only die once and learn from it, you’d likely try easier content and come back stronger later.

To keep players coming back day after day, the game should reduce harsh punishments and instead offer more rewards for completing harder content. There should also be more diverse ways to progress. For example, some players might have poor reflexes, and nothing will change that. By adding grindable options, these players can still overcome challenges on their own terms and continue enjoying the game.

For the long-term health of the game, it makes no sense to exclude certain players just to appease one side of the community. That’s the challenge with creating successful games—it’s difficult to strike a balance. Most of the time, you need to provide multiple, well-balanced paths to accommodate different playstyles.

Otherwise, the game either becomes too easy or too hard. While both extremes will attract certain fans, they will alienate a large portion of the player base.

Also sometimes Game Design mistakes will justified by "thats the soul/core of the game".
I think to be frustrating just for the sake of being called a game for real "fans and nerds and for good player" is overall not well designed.

They (at GGG) now have to decide which way they want to go.
To not iterate on game mechanics but sticking to the core hardcore gamer, thats fair but that costs players or giving in a little while still giving those top 1% a challenge somewhere else.

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BK2710#6123 написал:

Personally, I see level 100 as a joke. You farmed low level enemies for eternity, congratulations. It is not an entertaining challenge, it is stressful like a job. I get distracted by something important and die? Hours lost. It is not something I learn anything from or gain from beating either.

The game needs more content for level 100, strong build, characters. Real challenges that reward insane gear, cheat tier even. Hitless sekhemas is very fun, it is difficult and you prepare for it. You lose? Nothing happens... (well, unless you die) so try again.
You can practice regular runs until you want to tackle it and once you beat it the reward is insane.

So reaching level 100 isn't challenging... But it's stressful. So challenging ? Eh ?

Running Sekhema and losing isn't a waste of time and waste of entry token, but losing a map is a loss of time and waste of entry token ? Eh ?

What ?

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BK2710#6123 написал:

Personally I don't struggle at all, I did hitless sekhemas I am gaining more xp by the day and farm t15-t16 with no issue.


Personally, I see level 100 as a joke. You farmed low level enemies for eternity, congratulations. It is not an entertaining challenge, it is stressful like a job. I get distracted by something important and die? Hours lost. It is not something I learn anything from or gain from beating either.

Oh boy, that is contradicting and what was the reward for your no hit run? because there is a reward on there that is much more important on feedback than an XP death penalty.

But he's done no run Sek runs and he's over here complaining about the XP penalty.

I go back reading all the pages and he contradicts himself over and over.

The small majority want XP penalty removed.
This dates as far back as Diablo 2 and POE1 so 25 years (even now in DR2 it's still there) and POE1 a decade and it's never been changed.

removing the xp penalty or reducing it will not make players return to the game... or at least not enough players for it to be worth doing at all. It defines the end game grind and has for decades. If you don't want it you can play a other ARPG with it. POE will have it and it will never be removed.

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dwqrf#0717 написал:

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BK2710#6123 написал:

Personally, I see level 100 as a joke. You farmed low level enemies for eternity, congratulations. It is not an entertaining challenge, it is stressful like a job. I get distracted by something important and die? Hours lost. It is not something I learn anything from or gain from beating either.

The game needs more content for level 100, strong build, characters. Real challenges that reward insane gear, cheat tier even. Hitless sekhemas is very fun, it is difficult and you prepare for it. You lose? Nothing happens... (well, unless you die) so try again.
You can practice regular runs until you want to tackle it and once you beat it the reward is insane.

So reaching level 100 isn't challenging... But it's stressful. So challenging ? Eh ?

Running Sekhema and losing isn't a waste of time and waste of entry token, but losing a map is a loss of time and waste of entry token ? Eh ?

What ?

If I choose to run unique relics in skehemas I sign up for the additional challenge, and the reward it can bring. I am not forced to do it (I cannot think of a reason to ever lose in sekhemas myself all 4 floors without unique relics) but choose to do it.

Stressful is not challenging. It is exhausting and not in a fulfilling way, the process of doing the challenge is not really enjoyable. If I spend an entire day working I don't want to be stressed even further and I still play challenging games (some examples tome4, DMC5 no hit stuff for fun, time trials in racing games for records...). I engage with a challenge where losing does not really cost me anything where as dying in poe2 sets me back and that would make me feel that I simply should not have played at all as I wanted to relax and my theoretical bad play made me lose progress.

People only want to experience this so often before they quit permanently.
Sekhemas entry tokens drop like sand in a desert for me btw I don't know what to do with them all xD.

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So reaching level 100 isn't challenging... But it's stressful. So challenging ? Eh ?

It's not challenging or stressful.
Leveling to 100 is simply tedious, slow, and boring.

If you ever take the time to finally level a character to 100 you will have insight on the topic.

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QticaX#4168 написал:

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BK2710#6123 написал:

Personally I don't struggle at all, I did hitless sekhemas I am gaining more xp by the day and farm t15-t16 with no issue.


Personally, I see level 100 as a joke. You farmed low level enemies for eternity, congratulations. It is not an entertaining challenge, it is stressful like a job. I get distracted by something important and die? Hours lost. It is not something I learn anything from or gain from beating either.

Oh boy, that is contradicting and what was the reward for your no hit run? because there is a reward on there that is much more important on feedback than an XP death penalty.

But he's done no run Sek runs and he's over here complaining about the XP penalty.

I go back reading all the pages and he contradicts himself over and over.

The small majority want XP penalty removed.
This dates as far back as Diablo 2 and POE1 so 25 years (even now in DR2 it's still there) and POE1 a decade and it's never been changed.

removing the xp penalty or reducing it will not make players return to the game... or at least not enough players for it to be worth doing at all. It defines the end game grind and has for decades. If you don't want it you can play a other ARPG with it. POE will have it and it will never be removed.

I don't see a contradiction, to get a temporalis you need to beat one of the most tasking things in the game and that requires preparation both in knowing the content and making a build+gearset suited for it. You engage on it on your own terms, you are not forced to do no hit sek. The voluntary aspect is a key component here.

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BK2710#6123 написал:

I engage with a challenge where losing does not really cost me anything where as dying in poe2 sets me back

Right. Now I get it.

You'd rather lose your time playing for a challenge that takes time instead of losing your time playing for a challenge that takes time.

MAKES TOTAL SENSE !