Auction House when?

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1453R#7804 написал:

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arkanie#2558 написал:

It’s just the beginning guys. Relax.

Sure, GGG isn’t exactly the fastest company when it comes to fixing things, but the important part is, they do fix them. Step by step, they make the thing better. And honestly, after so many years, at least now we finally have something new for trade to work with. :p

Haha, no, I’m kidding a bit, but really, let’s just wait and see how it goes. I’m confident GGG will repair, adjust, and change what needs to be changed. That’s simply what early access is. That’s the cycle of an evolving game.

And this is exactly why we’ve been shouting for a new trade system at EA. Now we’ve got it—so let’s use it, break it, push it to its limits. With all its problems, fixes, and iterations, this is the foundation we need. This is the ground where things can truly be tested and improved.

Again, its EA. We must have and see.

The main problem is there are players in the game with tens of thousands of times the economic power of the overwhelming majority of the playerbase. Most players might see a lucky divine drop once or twice a league, and consider a five-exalt trade to be a perfectly reasonable and profitable endeavor - if they bother with/know about trading at all.

Then there's a couple thousand players, absolute max, at the top who can generate a four-digit number of divine drops every night without apparent effort and consider any trade below 25 divines to be a total waste of time and effort.

That latter group of players dictates the entire economy of the game, top to bottom. They dictate the prices of everything, and no one who isn't one of those players can remotely compete or even coexist. Trade friction was one of the only things slowing them down, while also ensuring that the opposite effect - literally every player in all of PoE putting literally every drop they get up for sale because fReE cUrReNcY!!1! - didn't happen either.

Now there's no controls whatsoever on either market ultrasaturation from the bottom, or what amounts to complete and utter monopoly at the top. The market is going to explode from both ends at once, and unlike all the gonks who're too selfish and self-absorbed to see beyond "I had to spend two minutes messaging people to find an item because people don't answer their whispers! DX", I don't really see a solution to the problem. Not one PoE is willing to implement, anyways. This sort of crap is why account binding exists in other games, but account binding is anathema to PoE and I imagine it always will be.

Without it? We get two separate buckets: an infinite supply of basic gear making it absolutely impossible for anyone who isn't one of those Blessed Thousand to accrue any wealth at all beyond lucky drops. And an infinite demand for extremely scarce High End Gear that allows the Blessed Thousand to strip-mine the wealth from the entire rest of the game, to the detriment of every last single player in the game that isn't one of them. There is no fix, beyond putting the brakes back on the market - but now that the Whinebabies have gotten their way, that will be impossible.

So...we're stuck. A market that exists for the space of a few hours after launch, and then almost everyone in said market is priced into SSF whether they want to play SSF or not.

Thanks, GGG. 'Preciate it. Really. ...Not.

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Cult_of_Resine#3258 написал:

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honestly I'm just happy it will be a little easier to upgrade my hammer with 497 damage that i'll inevitably be stuck with for most of the league. Who really needs high end gear? Just give me slightly less crappy gear.

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Grikanna#2569 написал:

Call me naive, but how does anyone manage to farm 4 figure numbers of divines in a evening? Clearly there are "top players", but that number!!!

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Better pony up a couple of hundred divines.

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1453R#7804 написал:

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Cult_of_Resine#3258 написал:

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honestly I'm just happy it will be a little easier to upgrade my hammer with 497 damage that i'll inevitably be stuck with for most of the league. Who really needs high end gear? Just give me slightly less crappy gear.

You won't be able to get it. Not really. Not with a system with absolutely no controls or brakes whatsoever.

If y'all thought price fixers were bad? Welcome to The Age of the Flipper, and all gear that isn't part of the sea of bottom-tier muck is priced in dozens to hundreds of divines because the Blessed Thousand can simply buy out literally the entire market and tell everyone else to get bent. Want that 498-damage hammer? Better pony up a couple of hundred divines.

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Cult_of_Resine#3258 написал:

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1453R#7804 написал:

We'll see. I can see the prices inflating as players drop off because there is less downward pressure from normal players putting normal items up for sale. But even if there are a few thousand people who control the market they will compete amongst themselves. It makes no sense to price items in such a way that the playerbase can't actually buy them so there will be some equilibrium reached. If you look at WoW the auction house works OK even though there are people who literally bot it 24/7 for arbitrage opportunities.

Relevant WoW AH problems that could affect a PoE2 marketplace

PoE2 is not WoW, and instant-buy via premium tabs and gold gating reduces some auction-style abuse. Still, several WoW AH issues remain relevant and should concern us:

• Buyout and snipe bots - instant-buy makes it trivial for automated scripts to monitor listings and immediately purchase valuable items the moment they appear, giving automation a huge advantage over human traders.
• Resource-driven manipulation - gold-gating raises the bar, but organized farms and multiboxing can accumulate large sums over time, allowing groups to hoard or corner markets.
• Inflation risk - if bots or farms inject currency at scale, prices still inflate and power spikes occur, harming player progression.
• Market capture - wealthy accounts can rapidly buy key items, creating artificial scarcity and blocking normal progression for others.
• RMT incentives - profitable instant markets encourage real-money trading, which fuels botting and undermines the economy.

PoE2 mitigations help, but they are not enough on their own

Gold costs and play-based earning reduce cheap, low-effort manipulation, but they do not stop organized automation. An instant-buy system removes some auction problems but introduces or magnifies buyout/sniping risks. To protect the economy, GGG should combine gold sinks, listing cooldowns, per-account caps, server-side rate limits, and active bot enforcement.

Conclusion - instant-buy changes the attack vector, but it does not eliminate the market risks shown by WoW's AH history. If PoE2 wants a marketplace that benefits most players, it needs proactive economic rules and robust anti-bot enforcement, not just the assumption that gold-gating will stop abuse.

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Burn4#0434 написал:

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Cult_of_Resine#3258 написал:

We'll see. I can see the prices inflating as players drop off because there is less downward pressure from normal players putting normal items up for sale. But even if there are a few thousand people who control the market they will compete amongst themselves. It makes no sense to price items in such a way that the playerbase can't actually buy them so there will be some equilibrium reached. If you look at WoW the auction house works OK even though there are people who literally bot it 24/7 for arbitrage opportunities.

Relevant WoW AH problems that could affect a PoE2 marketplace

PoE2 is not WoW, and instant-buy via premium tabs and gold gating reduces some auction-style abuse. Still, several WoW AH issues remain relevant and should concern us:

• Buyout and snipe bots - instant-buy makes it trivial for automated scripts to monitor listings and immediately purchase valuable items the moment they appear, giving automation a huge advantage over human traders.
• Resource-driven manipulation - gold-gating raises the bar, but organized farms and multiboxing can accumulate large sums over time, allowing groups to hoard or corner markets.
• Inflation risk - if bots or farms inject currency at scale, prices still inflate and power spikes occur, harming player progression.
• Market capture - wealthy accounts can rapidly buy key items, creating artificial scarcity and blocking normal progression for others.
• RMT incentives - profitable instant markets encourage real-money trading, which fuels botting and undermines the economy.

PoE2 mitigations help, but they are not enough on their own

Gold costs and play-based earning reduce cheap, low-effort manipulation, but they do not stop organized automation. An instant-buy system removes some auction problems but introduces or magnifies buyout/sniping risks. To protect the economy, GGG should combine gold sinks, listing cooldowns, per-account caps, server-side rate limits, and active bot enforcement.

Conclusion - instant-buy changes the attack vector, but it does not eliminate the market risks shown by WoW's AH history. If PoE2 wants a marketplace that benefits most players, it needs proactive economic rules and robust anti-bot enforcement, not just the assumption that gold-gating will stop abuse.