If PoE2 wants to be a game for skilled gamers...

Then it probably needs to tune down the number of mobs and increase the loot to compensate for it.

The thing is, this game offers alot of skill-based mechanics. Like blocking, parry, dodging, aiming. Those are typical mechanics from souls-like games which require good positioning and timing. And yes, that is fun for alot of players.

PoE2 tries to implement these mechanics into the classic ARPG genre. I think that's a great idea, but ofc it has an effect on the whole core-gameplay. In most ARPG, these mechanics are not necessary. You just get swarmed by tons of enemies and you only need to care about your positioning a little bit, but other then that, your attack skills wipe out the enemy crowd. But in PoE2, damage is scaled down, so that enemies survive longer. Ofc there are builds that have huge DPS and good clear speed, but it's obvious that this is not the intended gameplay. The intention is, that each encounter, not just the bosses, is a challenge and forces the player to actually develop skill to get through these fights, not just high DPS.

And here is the problem: Parry, Block, Dodge, Positioning etc. are not manageable in a good way, if the player gets swarmed by 20+ enemies from multiple directions. It kinda forces me to play the dps-game. Getting as much clear speed as possible so that the enemies can not swarm me. But are players supposed to play PoE2 with that mindset? Wouldn't it be more fun if I could actually use all these mechanics in a meaningful way and not just at some boss encounters? Becuase at bossfights, I usually get not swarmed. Sometimes they spawn minions, but other then that I have a single target I can focus on. And that's why I think there should be less mobs, but they should be stronger and have more loot. Especially melee would benefit from this change alot. Because right now, being ranged with high clear speed is the meta and that's like playing PoE1.

Seems like old Threads re. "melee < ranged" on PoE1 history, or "buff loot" Threads, etc.

Hopefully, 0.3+ can move forward there more... -- for now..again still early 0.2, but does look like it hasn't changed much on this front perhaps

Perhaps build diversity is improved in 0.2...in due time..

I think its manageable, if you read the skills and functions properly, you have skills that are great for pack clearing and some combos also, i did it since launch with warrior and the boneshatter skill and mage and coldsnap.

That clears the field quickly and leaves you to wrestle the elites sometimes and feels good.

Not every game needs to play like d3/d4 in the arpg genre.

I like the learning curve and the challenge and would even prefer it to be a bit more like launch since i prefer souls likes these days and baulder's gate dark alliance(ps2) is still a favourite diablo 1 type difficulty arpg.

I agree, especially whenever I watch their showcases and they present these interesting skill mechanics against small packs of enemies only for them to become completely invalid latter Act 2 and beyond where you'll barely be able to move unless you're focusing on wide AoE clears.

Reduce number of enemies and increase drops proportionately, rather than buffing characters as an answer.

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Stryfer#0953 написал:

I agree, especially whenever I watch their showcases and they present these interesting skill mechanics against small packs of enemies only for them to become completely invalid latter Act 2 and beyond where you'll barely be able to move unless you're focusing on wide AoE clears.

Reduce number of enemies and increase drops proportionately, rather than buffing characters as an answer.

Yes, that's what I've observed too. And lets not even talk about endgame. In endgame, it's either you clear the screen so fast that enemies can't survive 0,1sec. while being on screen, or you die. Trying to use block, parry and dodge ind endgame isn't worth it, espeically since there are builds that are faster/safer and don't need these mechanics.

And that's why PoE2 needs to change this. The skills/mechanics are designed for PoE2, but the monsters, their buffs and the mob density are carry-overs from PoE1.

There's a good reason why in games like Dark Souls/Elden Ring you usually face only 1-3 mobs at once. Facing 2 in the beginning of the game can be very deadly already. But now imagine 20 enemies surrounding you and that are able to walk as fast as you. That's what PoE2 kinda feels like right now to some degree.

And that's why I suggest let players face on average 6-8 monsters, but buff them and increase their loot to compensate players. This would allow players to fully utilize the defense mechanics from this game.

What "needs" to happen won't, the game's core systems are too ingrained, otherwise they'd need to close EA for at least a year to redo way too much from the ground up. Part of me thinks they should, but they won't, and I have every expectation they won't then fix what needs fixing. Too much from PoE1's design approach made its way into PoE2's approach to combat that are mutually exclusive or compete too much with each other. We have a "slower" more "methodical" combat that is countered by Line Go Up mentality of monsters damage and pack size. We have enemy mechanics flying around everywhere we go, making sitting still far too risky, with ZERO tools to compensate and make stationary or hit and run gameplay viable. We have archaic defenses that are competing against each other too much to balance properly against any of them. We have boss design and enemy damage potential pressuring ES stacking and just not getting hit, which means a good defense is a good offense in screen nuking before you can risk being attacked. We have loot drop rates and mod/tier weighting that then further promotes fastest possible clear speeds because of how little you find that's actually decent, meaning they're overly worried about the economy, or are convinced the only way to play the game is to have to grind 200+ hours on a single character to maybe get the loot and levels necessary to handle end game content proper (pinnacles and such).

I'll poke around with my warrior a while, but nothing seems to have been "fixed", and while I appreciate Sunder and Rolling Slam are faster to use now that isn't what was most needed. They need PoE2 to differentiate itself properly from PoE1, and they just flat out aren't trying to, or they are failing to achieve it.

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Stryfer#0953 написал:

I agree, especially whenever I watch their showcases and they present these interesting skill mechanics against small packs of enemies only for them to become completely invalid latter Act 2 and beyond where you'll barely be able to move unless you're focusing on wide AoE clears.

Reduce number of enemies and increase drops proportionately, rather than buffing characters as an answer.

A similar thought went through my head while viewing the huntress teaser.

It looked good to watch, but that isn't reality in the meat and potatoes portion of the game.

Yes i agree, the game does not support slow methodic gameplay for a number of reasons, some you included in your post. It feels like the game is in conflict with itself. I dont mind any direction it goes i guess, but its conflicting with it self atm.

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CPTBRUMBL3Z#3146 написал:

What "needs" to happen won't, the game's core systems are too ingrained, otherwise they'd need to close EA for at least a year to redo way too much from the ground up. Part of me thinks they should, but they won't, and I have every expectation they won't then fix what needs fixing. Too much from PoE1's design approach made its way into PoE2's approach to combat that are mutually exclusive or compete too much with each other. We have a "slower" more "methodical" combat that is countered by Line Go Up mentality of monsters damage and pack size. We have enemy mechanics flying around everywhere we go, making sitting still far too risky, with ZERO tools to compensate and make stationary or hit and run gameplay viable. We have archaic defenses that are competing against each other too much to balance properly against any of them. We have boss design and enemy damage potential pressuring ES stacking and just not getting hit, which means a good defense is a good offense in screen nuking before you can risk being attacked. We have loot drop rates and mod/tier weighting that then further promotes fastest possible clear speeds because of how little you find that's actually decent, meaning they're overly worried about the economy, or are convinced the only way to play the game is to have to grind 200+ hours on a single character to maybe get the loot and levels necessary to handle end game content proper (pinnacles and such).

I'll poke around with my warrior a while, but nothing seems to have been "fixed", and while I appreciate Sunder and Rolling Slam are faster to use now that isn't what was most needed. They need PoE2 to differentiate itself properly from PoE1, and they just flat out aren't trying to, or they are failing to achieve it.

I dont think the game needs to be shut down for 1 year to make such adjustments. I mainly talk about numeric features that are changed very easily without changing any specific code. We need reduced pack sizes and slower enemies, while increasing the loot drops significantly to compensate for the reduced pack sizes. Ofc with these decreased numbers of enemies, they should have more health and more punch, so that dodging and defending makes more sense. The player should face only 6-8 enemies at once on the screen, so that the in-build defense and offense mechanics start to make sense.

That means, they can change these numbers now and use the EA to find out, what players think about the changes.

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ziggro#7495 написал:

Yes i agree, the game does not support slow methodic gameplay for a number of reasons, some you included in your post. It feels like the game is in conflict with itself. I dont mind any direction it goes i guess, but its conflicting with it self atm.

Yes, you can feel that GGG tried to make something new (PoE2 elements), but has problems distancing themselves from the years-build mechanics in PoE1. They need to start thiunking outside of the box and think of PoE2 as a brand new game instead of trying to bring in PoE1 elements. Because these elements worked for PoE1 very well, but they don't work well with the new PoE2 mechanics.

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AceNightfire#0980 написал:

Yes, you can feel that GGG tried to make something new (PoE2 elements), but has problems distancing themselves from the years-build mechanics in PoE1. They need to start thiunking outside of the box and think of PoE2 as a brand new game instead of trying to bring in PoE1 elements. Because these elements worked for PoE1 very well, but they don't work well with the new PoE2 mechanics.

Overall, +1.

There's no point embarking on this (PoE 2) since like 2019? - and then making a PoE1 Clone.

(What does PoE1 Clone achieve? We have historical data and evidence what zoom-zoom-1-shot does to the game. Look at the SteamCharts data for PoE1 today. Does GGG want that player count for PoE2 too?)

Get rid of the zoom-zoom-1-shot. Improve "melee < ranged".
Balance the game for SSF over Trade/Standard.
This -- and you have a long-term future-oriented game, with longevity, sustainability, and growth.

(Re-iteration: TLDR: PoE1 Clone Has No Future.)