Omen of Amelioration and XP loss threads.

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DarKWolF90#6544 написал:

This is completely wrong.

People push for 100 here to top the ladder. Without XP loss the whole first to 100 challenge would be worthless.

You want to get to 100? Stop dying, use omens, juice your maps PROPERLY, don't run maps blindly because there's no build in the game that can handle every map with 100% survival rate (you're not supposed to run 2 extra dmg mods + pen mod and expect to facetank everything), scale your build properly, test your actual damage, y'know... learn the game.

The ladder would still exist, and the top would still be full of only the most skilled people. Removing XP loss has no impact on that.

I rarely die & I do use omens - still don't like the design of losing (XP earned from prior maps that have been beaten). It's the one and only reason that I stopped supporting the devs during season 1.

If I wanted to have the mentality that I should never die & that I have to be constantly anxious while playing - that's what hardcore mode is for.

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SpankyKong#9805 написал:

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Nyon#6673 написал:

Reaching level 100 isnt the driving factor behind my characters power.
My character getting the last levels to level 100 would give me probably less then 2% player power, so no there are other much more impactful ways to improve my character.

So in short no it wouldnt matter if i reached 100 or not.

This is why it's total BS, when ever the most ardent defenders of XP loss threaten to stop supporting the devs if they ever remove it. They don't usually admit it so openly, but the truth is they don't even play for levels/progress in the first place.

They would be satisfied with stagnant progression even at level 90.

No your just gravely mistaking how game balancing works.

1. There are people who enjoy grinding for level 100 and participating in the race. This would be ruined if exp penalty would be removed. Even if I dont participate in this myself doesnt mean i cant realise that it exists.

2. Realising that pushing for level 100 isnt the best use of my time for improving my characters power has no impact on weither or not exp penalty should be a part of the game.

3. Its essential for a game to have mechanics that punish you for playing poorly and rewards you for playing well for people to enjoy challenging games. This is one of those mechanics.

4. It also works as a learning mechanism for newer players. Because it forces you to learn the game in order to progress, you cant just mash your head on the keyboard and corpse rush your way to level 100.

5. Another function is to keep a value on defenses. If dying in the game had no penalty then there wouldnt really be much point in building defense. You would just build maximum dps and have 300 deaths every league.

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SpankyKong#9805 написал:

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DarKWolF90#6544 написал:

This is completely wrong.

People push for 100 here to top the ladder. Without XP loss the whole first to 100 challenge would be worthless.

You want to get to 100? Stop dying, use omens, juice your maps PROPERLY, don't run maps blindly because there's no build in the game that can handle every map with 100% survival rate (you're not supposed to run 2 extra dmg mods + pen mod and expect to facetank everything), scale your build properly, test your actual damage, y'know... learn the game.

The ladder would still exist, and the top would still be full of only the most skilled people. Removing XP loss has no impact on that.

I rarely die & I do use omens - still don't like the design of losing (XP earned from prior maps that have been beaten). It's the one and only reason that I stopped supporting the devs during season 1.

If I wanted to have the mentality that I should never die & that I have to be constantly anxious while playing - that's what hardcore mode is for.

No, removing exp penalty would completely destroy the ladder.

The only thing the ladder would show is who has the most hours played.

Currently in order to perform well on the ladder you need to have a well balanced build that both clears fast but can also survive. This is because of exp loss.

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SpankyKong#9805 написал:

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DarKWolF90#6544 написал:

This is completely wrong.

People push for 100 here to top the ladder. Without XP loss the whole first to 100 challenge would be worthless.

You want to get to 100? Stop dying, use omens, juice your maps PROPERLY, don't run maps blindly because there's no build in the game that can handle every map with 100% survival rate (you're not supposed to run 2 extra dmg mods + pen mod and expect to facetank everything), scale your build properly, test your actual damage, y'know... learn the game.

The ladder would still exist, and the top would still be full of only the most skilled people. Removing XP loss has no impact on that.

I rarely die & I do use omens - still don't like the design of losing (XP earned from prior maps that have been beaten). It's the one and only reason that I stopped supporting the devs during season 1.

If I wanted to have the mentality that I should never die & that I have to be constantly anxious while playing - that's what hardcore mode is for.

No, the top would be all tied with subpar builds that just pushed and pushed with enough time. It'd be just a "who has more hours" than "who has more skill". Nuh-uh. Definitely 100% wrong there buddy.


The mentality that you should never die is not something that's subject to your opinion on where it should apply, that's for the devs to decide . Which have taken this policy since POE1 (where we didnt have omens at first btw) and have given you the tools to work around it.

It's not "softcore i don't care, only hardcore i do care", you need to be good in both leagues, and pay attention to different aspects of the game for each league.

That's how it's always been, and probably not gonna change ever. You have D4 if you want to skillessly feel like you're achieving. This is not the game for that and will never be.

These dedicated defenders of XP loss don't move the needle at all for me to want to go back to supporting the devs, by the way. They're not convincing.

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SpankyKong#9805 написал:

These dedicated defenders of XP loss don't move the needle at all for me to want to go back to supporting the devs, by the way. They're not convincing.

The fact you have failed to grasp is that its not meant to convince you.

You obviously dont enjoy this game or its challenges. Your decision to stop playing is probably whats best for all parties involved.

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SpankyKong#9805 написал:

These dedicated defenders of XP loss don't move the needle at all for me to want to go back to supporting the devs, by the way. They're not convincing.

Nobody's trying to convince you to "restore your support" to the devs.

It's okay to not support a game that's not made for your tastes.


What's the issue here is that trying to get people to cater things to you because of your single individual support is kind of cringe, to say the least.

They can't comprehend that I would enjoy the gameplay while despising one aspect of the punishment design.

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SpankyKong#9805 написал:

They can't comprehend that I would enjoy the gameplay while despising one aspect of the punishment design.

Your individual enjoyment is not more important than everything that's been stated here as reasons why XP penalty exists. The core of the game is far more important.



If you enjoy the gameplay enough, then you can be bothered to learn how to deal and overcome the punishment. If you can't be bothered, then you don't enjoy the gameplay that much and you're not the target audience.



What's more important? A functional ladder system with a proper challenge that most players will spend hundreds of hours on? Or the frustration of a handful of players that can't be bothered to learn the game and will play less than 50hs without even buying a stash tab?

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DarKWolF90#6544 написал:

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SpankyKong#9805 написал:

They can't comprehend that I would enjoy the gameplay while despising one aspect of the punishment design.

Your individual enjoyment is not more important than everything that's been stated here as reasons why XP penalty exists. The core of the game is far more important.



If you enjoy the gameplay enough, then you can be bothered to learn how to deal and overcome the punishment. If you can't be bothered, then you don't enjoy the gameplay that much and you're not the target audience.



What's more important? A functional ladder system with a proper challenge that most players will spend hundreds of hours on? Or the frustration of a handful of players that can't be bothered to learn the game and will play less than 50hs without even buying a stash tab?

"Most players" stopped playing the game. Elevating XP loss as the core of the game is laughable - the numbers don't bear out that it retains "most players" & it never has.