[Feedback] Giga-Nerf Energy Shield in Patch 0.4.0

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Oinkaments#6390 написал:

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Legioona#1076 написал:

In a balanced game, all builds are played ~equally much.

Do you agree or disagree?

And

POE 2 should be a balanced game.

Do you agree or disagree?

Found the DEI fanatic.

People will play the archetype they like the most.

If minions are average I will play minion, if they are good I will play minion.
I installed this game to play minion.

If you destroy the minion archetype, I will delete this game.

Is this hard to understand to you or do you need me to express it more clearly?

How are those questions DEI?

In a balanced game, people get to play the class/weapon type they enjoy and theoretically speaking, that would be pretty evenly spread meaning plus or minus a couple percent in numbers playing each class.

Asking if you want POE2 to be balanced or not? Then follow it up with minion archetype destroyed aka much weaker than everything else you would quit?

In a balanced game as many builds / play styles would be near in strength. You are going way above and beyond in a simple question.

Yes they are gotcha questions to get you to say yes so they can point out how much stronger ES is to prove the argument. We get it. Anyone with a functioning brain can see it.

To be honest based on the numbers we have access to, it is the strongest. It has been since launch. Just like deadeye. Both need brought down.

Now to those who say why nerf ES, just buff life and evasion... I used to think like that but follow that path a little further. Now everyone is very tanky so what is the next step? Buff monsters. We dont want that because then it winds up being D3 numbers where everything has trillions of hp and billions of dps. Thats stupid.

I have stated in this thread multiple times... Bring ES down 15-20% and bring up life, armor, evasion, deflection up another 5-10% and see where it stands. This way ES is still strong but the other play styles have a better time.

Look at it this way, you love minions. Awesome. Now imagine them being bottom tier since launch. Only decent with god tier gear and pure min maxing but you can beat T4's. But on the same hand crossbows could beat T4's with average ground loot. Both were able to accomplish the same goal. Both can say they beat them but the path there was way more painful. Its the same here. ES is the crossbow. Life is the minions.

Side note, another easy fix IMO for this is add max hp nodes to all the melee damage stuff in the warrior side(so it cant be abused without losing the point by deadeyes or some crap). This would allow warriors and PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD TEMPLARS to scale their HP without it being abused by other classes without penalty.

Example.... 10% melee damage and 10 hp (the starter nodes). Then later on for the bigger nodes 20% melee damage 50 hp or something like that. Also revert the giants blood nerf... Just let it go back to what it was but maybe instead of triple stats make it 250% or something.

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Soulsniper1313#7576 написал:

In a balanced game, people get to play the class/weapon type they enjoy and theoretically speaking, that would be pretty evenly spread meaning plus or minus a couple percent in numbers playing each class.

Theoretically speaking, if I jumped high enough I could escape the bounds of gravity, and then if I held my breath, I could float to Andromedia and live in a world where people do not "theoretically speak" with no actual theory.


If you look at games in general, it is not an even spread. Most people do not pick things because of balance, they pick them for enjoyment.

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AverBeg7#1689 написал:

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Soulsniper1313#7576 написал:

In a balanced game, people get to play the class/weapon type they enjoy and theoretically speaking, that would be pretty evenly spread meaning plus or minus a couple percent in numbers playing each class.

Theoretically speaking, if I jumped high enough I could escape the bounds of gravity, and then if I held my breath, I could float to Andromedia and live in a world where people do not "theoretically speak" with no actual theory.


If you look at games in general, it is not an even spread. Most people do not pick things because of balance, they pick them for enjoyment.

So are you arguing balancing is not possible, or that it should not be done?

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Legioona#1076 написал:

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AverBeg7#1689 написал:

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Soulsniper1313#7576 написал:

In a balanced game, people get to play the class/weapon type they enjoy and theoretically speaking, that would be pretty evenly spread meaning plus or minus a couple percent in numbers playing each class.

Theoretically speaking, if I jumped high enough I could escape the bounds of gravity, and then if I held my breath, I could float to Andromedia and live in a world where people do not "theoretically speak" with no actual theory.


If you look at games in general, it is not an even spread. Most people do not pick things because of balance, they pick them for enjoyment.

So are you arguing balancing is not possible, or that it should not be done?

Balance, does not equal everyone picking an equal spread, and I have already explained this specifically to you, and you know I have.

Can we just do away with the pointless semantics and actually face the issues at hand?

There are 40% increased energy shield and similar nodes all over on the passive tree. Where are all the 40% increased life in the passive tree for people who want to use a life pool instead of ES?

Problem is not ES, but the fact that armour/life builds simply cannot extend their available life pool for taking damage from big hits.

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AverBeg7#1689 написал:

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Legioona#1076 написал:

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AverBeg7#1689 написал:

Theoretically speaking, if I jumped high enough I could escape the bounds of gravity, and then if I held my breath, I could float to Andromedia and live in a world where people do not "theoretically speak" with no actual theory.


If you look at games in general, it is not an even spread. Most people do not pick things because of balance, they pick them for enjoyment.

So are you arguing balancing is not possible, or that it should not be done?

Balance, does not equal everyone picking an equal spread, and I have already explained this specifically to you, and you know I have.

Can we just do away with the pointless semantics and actually face the issues at hand?

Balance means all builds perform equally well, and hence are equally enjoyable.

On an individual level, we of course have preferences on what we pick, but when the sample size is large enough, balance means nothing stands out too much either way due to performance.


I encourage you to delve into the semantics of a meta-build, and try to figure out where it comes from.

"Most Effective Tactics Available"

In practice this means in a well balanced game, meta builds do not exist.

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Legioona#1076 написал:

In practice this means in a well balanced game, meta builds do not exist.

But that's impossible. Every thing in the world has meta approach. To me a well balanced game requires different metas for different challenges so its impossible to simply create a build which is meta fpr everything.

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Sakanabi#6664 написал:

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Legioona#1076 написал:

In practice this means in a well balanced game, meta builds do not exist.

But that's impossible. Every thing in the world has meta approach. To me a well balanced game requires different metas for different challenges so its impossible to simply create a build which is meta fpr everything.

Different challenges require different strategies, and some strategies are called cheese.

Some builds are better in some circumstances, some builds are better in others, but builds which outshine all other builds are called meta.


Balancing is difficult, but not impossible - if indeed balancing is a goal GGG is after.

One another goal POE could be, that each season has a few meta builds, and the game loop is about finding and reaching them. But personally, I'd feel this would not be too fun.

why is a nerf needed anywhere? this is not D4 where bosses hit hard and you actually need defenses...

my point is pinnacle endgame is zooming and oneshotting everything. defenses don't matter. Maybe when the game is slower and not everything dies in 5 seconds this could actually be needed. Nerfing ES only makes the leveling harder for everyone else

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Evilsmiter#8011 написал:

There are 40% increased energy shield and similar nodes all over on the passive tree. Where are all the 40% increased life in the passive tree for people who want to use a life pool instead of ES?

The goal should not be to buff the passive tree with more added life nodes, but instead reduce the values of ES nodes. Life + Armour are in a pretty good spot, GGG should bring down the power of ES as it is clearly at outlier. At the end of the day, the game doesn't need to get any easier.