Can we please have life nodes?

Why do I have to play ES every league on every character?

Even after the ES nerfs, my Smith of Kitava with:

80% over-capped elemental resistances
75% chaos resist
82% armor (15114 base)
100% of armor being applied to chaos damage
135% of armor applying to elemental damage

... is much, much, much squishier than my Sorceress with 11K ES and not even fully capped resistances... just because I have 3.1K life. That's taking every life node I possibly can and having life on as much gear as possible. Taking all these defenses severely limits my damage, but for some reason it seems like it provides no actual benefit in practice.

I then switched to ES and spent maybe 1 divine total on trash tier ES gear and I'm tankier than I was previously wearing 20+ divine worth of armor-based gear. It makes zero sense.

EDIT:

I actually have 24121 base armor. I wasn't wearing body armour when I checked. Point still stands. Even with 24121, still way way way squishier than an ES character with uncapped resists.

You don't have to.

I agree tho that life is a bit too weak, and ES a bit too strong. But I do think that while the number-wise difference seems large, due to ES's inherent disadvantages, the practical is that a large buff to life with a nerf to ES could just drop ES to be the weaker option.

So I'd like it if GGG did just a small survivability buff to the non-ES builds, and a small nerf to ES builds that was very tiny in first half campaign and a bit bigger but still fairly small at the top end of the scaling.

You dont have to x2


You have no armour either. Comparing 11k ES to 15k armour is not a fair comparison.


My warrior with 4.3k life is 40x tankier than my sorc with 12k ES+mom/mana remnant overcap + 2.2k life



If it took you 20D to get to 15k armour you just flat out dont know how to build armour. Or buy things in general.

My warrior had like 11k comming out of the campaign with quest gear.

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Mashgesture#2912 написал:

You dont have to x2


You have no armour either. Comparing 11k ES to 15k armour is not a fair comparison.


My warrior with 4.3k life is 40x tankier than my sorc with 12k ES+mom/mana remnant overcap + 2.2k life



If it took you 20D to get to 15k armour you just flat out dont know how to build armour. Or buy things in general.

My warrior had like 11k comming out of the campaign with quest gear.

True and real.

My SSF warrior from last league has 2.8 life and 22k armour at lvl 95. Those numbers should be waaaaay higher for someone in trade league.

Boiling it down to ES vs Life is an oversimplification and makes for inappropriate comparisons.

I'll expedite the forum discussion that always happens:

"ES is better because it's easier to get a large enough number of hit points to survive a hypothetical phys-slam in a vacuum just by taking points on the tree"

"My huge-dps kill-or-be-killed glass-cannon playstyle means I only sometimes take a hit or two if I don't instantly kill the monster and that happens more often when I am in melee range therefore melee (and life) is bad and ES is good because I die more as life-based melee rather than energy-shield caster with this playstyle."

They don't like being called glass cannon or having bad defense so they say, "I had x, y z stats - hardly a glass cannon build!"

Inevitably followed up again, by a hc player who shows them triple the stats x, y and z, and says "get gud" or "learn how to build defenses".

And another person responds, "But all that investment into armour and everything else VS just getting ES..." - ignoring that the ES is also significantly invested into defensive nodes and other supporting layers.

We should all just agree that playstyle and knowledge is the largest factor above life or es, and most people just blame whichever kind they're playing as under-powered when they die.

I wonder what the hybrid armour/life/ES people have to say. Shouldn't they be immortal? lol

As an aside, I've seen a CI 15k ES individual get "one-shot" to damage in temple that any warrior would have completely mitigated just by holding their shield up and then gone on with their day. I guess that sort of thing doesn't count for anything.

"

karsey#2995 написал:

Boiling it down to ES vs Life is an oversimplification and makes for inappropriate comparisons.

I'll expedite the forum discussion that always happens:

"ES is better because it's easier to get a large enough number of hit points to survive a hypothetical phys-slam in a vacuum just by taking points on the tree"

"My huge-dps kill-or-be-killed glass-cannon playstyle means I only sometimes take a hit or two if I don't instantly kill the monster and that happens more often when I am in melee range therefore melee (and life) is bad and ES is good because I die more as life-based melee rather than energy-shield caster with this playstyle."

They don't like being called glass cannon or having bad defense so they say, "I had x, y z stats - hardly a glass cannon build!"

Inevitably followed up again, by a hc player who shows them triple the stats x, y and z, and says "get gud" or "learn how to build defenses".

And another person responds, "But all that investment into armour and everything else VS just getting ES..." - ignoring that the ES is also significantly invested into defensive nodes and other supporting layers.

We should all just agree that playstyle and knowledge is the largest factor above life or es, and most people just blame whichever kind they're playing as under-powered when they die.

I wonder what the hybrid armour/life/ES people have to say. Shouldn't they be immortal? lol

As an aside, I've seen a CI 15k ES individual get "one-shot" to damage in temple that any warrior would have completely mitigated just by holding their shield up and then gone on with their day. I guess that sort of thing doesn't count for anything.

Yup sure buddy, that's why 95% of top players play ES build, there is nothing wrong with life. There are words like here and there is reality

Quick look at the hcssf top 100 list on poe.ninja and 20% of the characters there do not use ES as a significant part of their defense.

Very easy to look at this and think it's saying something about ES>life but that's not really the best way to digest that information.

If you filter it to see classes that might not traditionally use ES - so only looking at the str, str/dex, dex classes, you get 52% with no significant use of ES, and of the 48% that do, 30% are using CI - that's a pretty large proportion of non-int ES users using a specific keystone. Something like that usually warrants some investigation.

If we revisit the unfiltered top-100, 30% of the entire 100 are CI.

Of the non-CI, 1/3 characters do not significantly use ES.

To me, this doesn't say that ES-good Life-bad - one may have an edge over the other in some cases but it's not some sort of supreme domination situation that it gets made out to be.

What I do actually take away from that information is that there is a high prevalence of chaos and/or bleed/poison damage in the endgame, and defense against it is (at least perceived as being) difficult to achieve compared to just using the CI keystone.

So is it that chaos damage is underestimated and the top ladder is the result of the game naturally filtering out players without chaos defense, leaving a biased top-100 with an overrepresentation of CI characters and in turn, inflating ES prevalence? Is defense against chaos damage if you're a non-CI character just comparatively too hard to obtain? Are chaos damage values themselves too high? All of the above?

Maybe the witch skills are better than the non-witch skills and since most people are playing them, on an int class, it also inflates natural prevalence of ES, or at least contributes.

Just saying there's a lot to consider - it's not always directly about ES, or life, you need to consider all of the factors. That's why I said it's an oversimplification that is more likely to misrepresent reality.

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Mashgesture#2912 написал:

You dont have to x2


You have no armour either. Comparing 11k ES to 15k armour is not a fair comparison.


My warrior with 4.3k life is 40x tankier than my sorc with 12k ES+mom/mana remnant overcap + 2.2k life



If it took you 20D to get to 15k armour you just flat out dont know how to build armour. Or buy things in general.

My warrior had like 11k comming out of the campaign with quest gear.

beacause u using rising shield.

Armor cannot be compared to ES in terms of efficiency. Normally, armor is always more efficient because warriors constantly take damage.

The game does lack vita and max life nodes.

The warrior will always have an advantage in defense; he has block and a rising shield. Your comparison is irrelevant. In fact, in terms of defense and block, you can't compare the warrior to any other character in the game.

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Kaiserblade42#2817 написал:

beacause u using rising shield.

Nope

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tzaeru#0912 написал:

You don't have to.

I agree tho that life is a bit too weak, and ES a bit too strong. But I do think that while the number-wise difference seems large, due to ES's inherent disadvantages, the practical is that a large buff to life with a nerf to ES could just drop ES to be the weaker option.

So I'd like it if GGG did just a small survivability buff to the non-ES builds, and a small nerf to ES builds that was very tiny in first half campaign and a bit bigger but still fairly small at the top end of the scaling.

why to nerf ES and keep armor like shit??. why not to improve armor and evassion?.