Curse Aura (Support Gem)

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CanHasPants написал:
Beside this being OP as fuck (temporal enfeebled auras anyone?) it would be clunky and difficult to implement given the way curses behave in parties. If a player casts a curse, previous curses are overridden. How would that interact with the auras? With multiple players with multiple different auras?

I love the idea, despite being downright OP (seriously, permanent chains+enfeeble would be GG), but it simply cannot function without all kinds of crazy new rules and exceptions being made.

Edit: But just for the sake of argument, @Velkor: To reach something clost to balance, at the very least I think the mcm would have to convert the flat mana cost value into an % reserved instead of flat amount reserved, on top of a radius and effect reduction of 30-50%. Consider the effect of inc aoe, reduced mana, and the aura reservation / aoe radius passives, on a flat mana reservation. Even at 600 flat mana reserved (only 340 after reduction), there's a way around it, to make the whole screen slow and weak via chains and/or enfeeble. There's no way around a 140% mana reservation :P


Not sure why you think this would be OP, I think it'd kind of suck shit due to lack of generality (not so useful against ranged, no control, eats mana pool). Sure, maybe for some builds it would be really nice (read OP, but these builds are probably OP to begin with) but you can already have permanent multiple curses that you can cast at will, where you want. Only temp chains, last I played, required any sort of sustained effort. Basically, it'll be for lazy people.

If you're melee, I think it'd have more value for offense because you have to be close regardless.

There's no way in hell I'd trade actual temp chains + enfeeble (which makes the game a total snoozefest, to the point that I had to bitch about it and I think helped result in curses against bosses being weakened) for aura curses since you'd have to already be living in some sort of comfort (that is, you have it too easy) for that.

Oh and this suggestion has been mentioned, as is, before. At the time I was against it mainly due to interaction complexities and value. I would probably still be, but meh, not exactly my problem.

Edit:
If you seriously want to curb abuse, just restrict the AoE, don't make any modifiers affect it. Having it percentage reserved mana is imo far too restrictive and we end up with yet more aura stacking (with nothing new) while still being highly abusable for certain sorts of builds and parties.
The reason I think it is OP:
If you rely on (say) 2 curses, dropping a totem, and casting a spell twice to kill a pack, then it takes you 5 casts to clear a pack. By making curses castless (always active) you reduce the time it takes to clear a pack by 40%. That's huge.

Furthermore, those curses require (quite a bit) of mana, that to cast them 2 times per pack would actually require more mana management over the course of several runs than a flat reservation would.

Further furthermore, any melee with enfeeble always active, without having to cast a single thing, in melee range is GG. They have 100% pure reaction time, rather than time occupied casting and recasting curses, which leaves them vulnerable / requires more kiting and micromanagement.

If you disagree, I say go ahead and encourage GGG to add an aurification support for curses. There will be threads all across the board about how stupid powerful they are. At which point, to be balanced, they will either need to be nerfed to the dirt (won't want to use them) or will be another mandatory bit of power creep that every character has to build towards because the rest of the game had to be buffed to compensate.

The next time you run a zone, think about how much easier the experience would be if you never had to cast your curses, and they instead always active all the time.
Devolving Wilds
Land
“T, Sacrifice Devolving Wilds: Search your library for a basic land card and reveal it. Then shuffle your library.”
Hmm, dunno if it would really be OP, I think many players would rather spend a bit of time casting curses than having a weakened version of it with a smaller radius taking up precious mana reserve space.

I sure wouldn't on most of my builds, perhaps on my BM caster mara, he really has no useful auras available and it kinda sucks to reset incinerate to curse enemies that appeared after I cursed the lot and started casting it.
Wish the armchair developers would go back to developing armchairs.

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Последняя редакция: raics#7540. Время: 11 сент. 2013 г., 11:36:19
Consider what permanent AoE temporal chains would do--makes kiting a cakewalk, completely marginalizing the potential of pretty much any melee enemy (if ranged), haste modded enemies and enemies that suicide bomb you. Enemies attack slower, which reduces rate at which you receive crits, and improves the potency of flasks and regen.

Now consider what permanent AoE enfeeble would do--makes kiting less relevant because enemies have a lesser chance of hitting you, penetrate less armour when they do, reduces crit chance and damage against the fewer attacks that do land (against an also aura-chained mob), and make status ailments less likely to occur.

Net effect is (roughly) thrice reducing the chances of an incoming crit, thrice reducing the chances that a crit would land a status ailment, thrice reducing the amount of incoming physical damage, and twice reducing the amount of incoming elemental attack damage.

What's worse, the combination of these two aurafied curses would make moot the need for any other aura (except unique circumstances like CI requiring grace and determination to stack any respectable amount of armour).

Without having to cast anything between each pack.

If you don't think that would be OP, then I don't think we're playing the same game. Even with a reduced area, nothing is stopping you from still hardcasting curses against distant enemies when needed, but the need is much less given any decent movement skill (or not at all with flicker strike).

Edit: Random idea: a more balance approach might be to convert the curse into an aura-like aoe that constantly degenerates a portion of the curse's casting cost every second, similar to arctic armour and without benefit of aura reservation reduction passives or uniques (which is where the aura support would become broken, and any cost associated becomes meaningless).
Devolving Wilds
Land
“T, Sacrifice Devolving Wilds: Search your library for a basic land card and reveal it. Then shuffle your library.”
Последняя редакция: CanHasPants#3515. Время: 11 сент. 2013 г., 12:05:22
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CanHasPants написал:
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Yeah apparently we didn't play the same game. If you think this would be GG for melee you are pretty mistaken imo, I generally easily maintained enfeeble at far less risk than having things approach me first (save for desync and the odd flicker striker).

A reduced mana pool would definitely have hurt me more than having to recast, considering you're likely to kill and refill flasks if you have, have leech, etc. There's also the extra skill slot usage.

How about controlling curse application? No use there either. Screws with parties, screws with your own cursing even and of course, not particularly useful against range.

For lots of melee builds, it would be garbage, seriously. The act of applying a curse has absolutely never been a serious issue and this really doesn't give you anything you weren't already using.

In general I think the interaction is simply too messy to do this, which is why I wouldn't support it, but absolutely not because I think it'd be OP for my soloing 2h ass, for instance. Absolutely never would I use it.

To clarify, I definitely think it could be OP for certain builds and situations, but not for the sort of builds that most likely need something like it. It'd imo be a really poor solution that does more harm than good due to interaction issues and mostly being beneficial to already arguably OP builds, or at least, classes of builds that have it easier than some others. It's fairly redundant too in that it simply doesn't add anything new either.

Imo, if people want debuff auras, they should just suggest debuff auras.
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MrMisterMissedHer написал:
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CanHasPants написал:
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Yeah apparently we didn't play the same game. If you think this would be GG for melee you are pretty mistaken imo, I generally easily maintained enfeeble at far less risk than having things approach me first (save for desync and the odd flicker striker).

This is where I think you're mistaken. You don't need to risk enemies getting close to them for the curse to be effective; you already need to risk getting close to them to damage them, and the curse is always there to support you where it counts, where combat is the most dangerous. It is never not there. Not when packs scatter, curses would have worn off, or new mobs wander in.

To put it another way, curses are very powerful. Part of that power is balanced by their having a casting time and a duration. This suggestion would apply the full benefit but attempts to trade those two balancing factors for another; one I do not believe is nearly as costly as you think (depending on which suggestion, exactly, we're discussing--I certainly wouldn't think anything of it, on any build, to run a 99 flat reservation permanent enfeeble if we're talking about the 200% mcm support).
Devolving Wilds
Land
“T, Sacrifice Devolving Wilds: Search your library for a basic land card and reveal it. Then shuffle your library.”
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CanHasPants написал:

Edit: Random idea: a more balance approach might be to convert the curse into an aura-like aoe that constantly degenerates a portion of the curse's casting cost every second, similar to arctic armour and without benefit of aura reservation reduction passives or uniques (which is where the aura support would become broken, and any cost associated becomes meaningless).


I like this idea. Something like 20%-30% of the cost as a continual drain on mana. Running one would be manageable but running two would take up a lot of your mana regen.

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