D3 haters = PoE lovers?

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Stt3r0 написал:

I belive most of D3 hate comes from hype and memory of good times.

This trope does grate on a lot of people's nerves. The kind that have the Things You Should Know About Diablo 2 thread memorized more or less, and last played it a month or two ago.

Diablo 3 was designed for the "normal difficulty once, and done" crowd. Path is designed by hardcore Diablo enthusiasts.

Genre enthusiasts always desire ever increasing complexity and quality out of their games (compare Super Mario Brothers 3 to Super Mario Brothers); that's why genres wax and wane. When you have sixty thousand contra clones to choose from, a new one isn't going to be a big deal to you.

Expectations were to be at least as complex as Diablo 2 among this crowd - Diablo 2, but prettier, and without awful level design like the completely empty jungle the size of Detroit. That was the highest I allowed my hopes to get. I wanted more and different complexity, but I was realistic about things.

To not just refuse to go anywhere in that direction, but actually scale what complexity there was backwards, is a slap in a face to them. Hence why so many take it so personally.

Example: Why the hell does Diablo 3 even have wands and staves in it?

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But this game has so much wasted potential because the developers insist on porting over many of the design choices of the original D2 without trying to address any of the issues the original game had. Cookie-cutter builds, simplistic monsters, repetitive grinding, black markets, ect.

It's nowhere close to perfection, and a lot of their choices I disagree with (the olde timey elemental resist stat for one. Class homogenization another.), but it is its own dog.

A lot of those things you mention at the end are intrinsic to the genre, and would be like asking Mario to please stop jumping on things -

"Simplistic monsters"? You want the dumb bear, that dies in 3 seconds, to have cunning AI and dozens of special moves? I think you're looking for an arena fighter kind of a game, instead. Streetfighter with a mouse, instead of a hunt-gather-plan simulator kind of a game.

@community - Bashing is bound to happen, its stigma of our times. And the bigger the hype the more ppl getting product while thinking its more then it is and the bigger bashing. On the other hand the bigger the hype the better sales so i dont expect hypes to stop...
But devil hides in details, hence the question.


@Difficulty. D3 wasnt easy , not inferno before patches. But players complained and complained and got what they wanted ;/ So it is by majority damand. But then they added ubers, if you solo on max MP your gear allows its not easy.


@AH - its necessary evil. There are milions of players , can you imagine how trade chat would look ? i used tradeforums once i posted refreshed and my post was already on second page ... There smth in person to person trading but it was also pain in sell things, just think how much time you spend trying to sell smth rather then playing?. That said if you ask me i would add timer so item bought from AH cant be placed on it for next two weeks, wouldnt hurt normal ppl and would kill most of the AH playing.
@RMAH - like i said black market is bound to exist and changing currency to various orbs won't change it, D2 had pretty much same system with runes. And i dont belive they ban buyers , its bad for business to ban ppl that are willing to spend money on your game....

@"Darker setting" - i would say its dirtier as D3 is not particulary light. The main thing is that in D3 they decided that your vision = what you see on screen. While PoE D1&2 used light radius, yea i still remember (D1) when just as i entered diablo floor i found crazy helm but with -light radius, my vision was like 3 squared ... uuu i had some scare then. But i don't think D3 choice is bad and its probably appealing to larger audience.


@Itematization - in D3 its greatly limited for sake of future content (expansions...) and when you compare to D2 you probably think of D2lod 1.10+ (aka after expansion + patches). As for PoE im yet to learn about stat importance but from what i can tell there are no auras or casts.
Also there is no crafting (pst that what D3 got is not crafting either)

@Complexity - There are builds and options in D3 just you don't get the feeling that your choices got weight as you can change them any time. PoE however goes too far in to the opposite, its easy to go into wrong build and if you do you pretty much need to remake character. You can say thats fine. but lets say you got bored of using sword and you want to go hammer? that basicly means new character. Being locked to one build is heavy bordedom factor


@Diablo 2 successor - would going more D2 way mean bigger success for D3 ? don't think so. I will compare it to my main genre cRPG that is. I loved classic RPG and i'm totaly sad they don't make them anymore, instead market went to playable on consoles semi action games. But does that mean those are crap games? no, i cant blame them for going for larger audicence even if this doesnt fit my taste. Same is with diablo 3, who knows what choices were made to make the game be possible to port on consoles? I cant blame them for aiming for larger audience i can be only sad.
If you judge game by sales then there is only one top list, if you judge it by reviewer then there are countless top lists. Who knows but i guess that while milions liked D2 only 1-2% were hardcore. GGG got smaller revenue needs so they can aim for niche.

the thing i hated with d3 is that they tried to sell it to everyone..be casuals, semi and hardcore. they got too greedy.POE knows their target market in that respect i think most d3 haters who played hardcore d1 and d2 will love this.

I don't hate Diablo 3. I just feel that I got manipulated by all the PR. The product was no near as nice as they promised, and afterwards they were arrogant as hell, when people was criticizing "we mainly got positive responses".

I love PoE though.

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Durza написал:

the thing i hated with d3 is that they tried to sell it to everyone..be casuals, semi and hardcore. they got too greedy.POE knows their target market in that respect i think most d3 haters who played hardcore d1 and d2 will love this.

Summed up perfectly!

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LimitedRooster написал:

Example: Why the hell does Diablo 3 even have wands and staves in it?

Wands can have wizard-specific affixes on them, arcane power on crit being the most popular one. I see the Energy Twister affix used a bit too. Buffing all of the class and skill specific affixes might help with itemization.

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It's nowhere close to perfection, and a lot of their choices I disagree with (the olde timey elemental resist stat for one. Class homogenization another.), but it is its own dog.

A lot of those things you mention at the end are intrinsic to the genre, and would be like asking Mario to please stop jumping on things -

"Simplistic monsters"? You want the dumb bear, that dies in 3 seconds, to have cunning AI and dozens of special moves? I think you're looking for an arena fighter kind of a game, instead. Streetfighter with a mouse, instead of a hunt-gather-plan simulator kind of a game.

I don't want a bear that has some crazy skill set. What I want is a bear that does something other than auto-attack. Both TL2 and D3 do this well, most monsters have one special attack that defines them and makes them feel different.

Here's an example: Bears use a super-powered Enduring Cry that buffs nearby mob's physical resistance by +75%. However they won't use it right when you engage them, maybe 10-12 seconds after engagement. The player will have to single target these ASAP to stop them from putting up their buff--something an AoE build might struggle with. This is promoting build diversity based on game mechanics rather than spreadsheet calculations. Almost every enemy in the game needs a skill like this to help curve cookie-cutter builds.

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Avireyn написал:

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Stt3r0 написал:

Hi!
I'm touching this subject as i find a lot of PoE spokesman very negative towards D3. ( on the contrary TL2 ppl that i saw was very respecting).
This leads me to question will those that hate D3 realy like PoE? I belive most of D3 hate comes from hype and memory of good times. Long story short - something that you did enjoy as teenager doesn't have to be fun for you as adult.

One thing I don't like about D3 is not about D3 but its community. It's the constant stream of people trying to oversimplify my dislike with "It's nostalgia and over-glorification of Diablo II".

I have both Diablo and Diablo II still on my machine, I play both of them occasionally still. It's not me 'remembering my childhood'. My idea of 'fun' didn't do a 180 when I turned 21 ten years ago. I still like basically the same things. My interests may have broadened, my taste have become a bit more refined, but at the end of the day. I still prefer to build my own character in any iso ARPG, and not have it done for me.

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So i dont get that expectation if you didn't like D3 but did like D2 you will like PoE. I belive that those that did play D3 alot , enjoyed it at start but got bored after a hundred hours will like PoE.
As for rest? i suspect that AH/RMAH is in blame and i don't understand it... its not like lack of official support will stop buy power. As long as the game will be success there will be gold/item selling sites.

So how is it for you ? If you find the equation in tittle true for yourself could you go in detail why do you hate/love respective titles?

I played D3 for 50 hours tops (I wanted my money back after five). I still vastly prefer PoE. Because it doesn't take 500 hours to know that everything I liked about the Diablo franchise was gone. I still tried to find scraps of it - hope is a hard thing to let go.
Which is why some people have hung onto D3 for so long. Hope for better items, hope for PvP, hope for Blizzard to realize what they had frakked up.

PoE simply offers so many more possibilities, real randomization and a darker atmosphere. I don't think it's fair to say "If you hated D3 after 500 hours, you will like PoE".
It's more accurate to say "If you dislike hand-holding, but love systems that give you maximum free reign and responsibility, real builds AND a dark atmosphere, you will like PoE." Thing is, the Diablo franchise had that prior to D3.

And of course there will always be a black market for such things. But PoE's "No gold/trade objects are useful tools for item advancement" and barter system makes it inefficient to run bots, which greatly diminishes the black market.
And the Black Market is not developer-sanctioned, which is kind of the point, really. It is seen as a way of cheating, and rightly so. If you really want to, we cannot stop you. But accept that you are making shady deals and that it is your risk. We will out you when we find out.


That said: I don't want to make anyone like PoE. Either one likes what it offers or one doesn't. Not everyone has to like everything. Tastes are different. I'm perfectly fine if someone says: "I don't care for character development, and there are no loot goblins, and the combat has so much more oomph in D3". Cool, then D3 is the game for him, and PoE isn't.
Isn't it nice when there are possibilities? ;-)

Could not have said it better, really.

I grew up with Diablo and Diablo 2 and when Diablo 3 was finally announced it was like my biggest wish coming true. And although I enjoyed playing Diablo 3, something felt off.

Then after a while, when you make it through the first difficulty levels, you suddenly get hit by the Horadric Malus and you realise something;

The loot you get and the excitement you have when finding that loot is pretty low and you aren`t having as much fun as you had when you started playing.

How can this be? I am playing a Diablo Game... what´s going on?

My Monk reached level 60, never found anything decent and after a while I lost interest (that`s when I started devouring any info I could find about Path of Exile) and stopped playing.

Any game built around an auction house (real $ or not) is not an arpg. It is more along the lines of Auction house tycoon. This and whenever I dedicated my time to gearing my character, every hotfix would force me to re-gear or quit. Even if this is not the case now, I would never return. I have even destroyed my authenticator.

PoE is best ever game!