Detailed overview of Diablo 3 vs. Path of Exile

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morbo написал:

Content gated by difficulty - which in ARPGs mostly means gear - is ok. In D3 you can always lower or raise the difficulty.

But in PoE, besides being gated by gear, is also gated by:

1.) Trading, since you will never find as many orbs as you need to roll maps
2.) Arbitrary RNG of map drops. 'My map pool got rekt, even tho I spent everything on it', is the tagline on this forum's endgame discussion since I remember.

There's stuff that is better in D3 and there's stuff that is better in PoE. In the end, for me PoE is still the better ARPG, if I had to pick one. But I still go back to D3, for a dose of ARPG hack&slash that is not interrupted by bullshit design.

Thing is, you have the gear and you have the skills. The design in that game makes skills almost irrelevant, your build will be 100% determined by gear, and the quantity of builds is low. That way, gear gating is bullshit.

Honestly, I think the whole grinding gear thing should be a reason to keep playing, not a extremely big factor in a build. PoE could move a lot more to the direction of skill gating, and let the items be a reason to keep coming back. My gut feeling is that drops are badly paced, so the jump between upgrades doesn't feel good. And then there are things like 6L that require do boring farming that just annoy people (not that I want one, really).

About the other factors you mention:

The whole trading thing is a problem for self found people. If you have trouble with that, don't play self found or think in a outside the box solution for the problem that it's not "make the drop rates better" (it's not that they couldn't increase it, it's that most people trade and you can't balance around minority; that and hedonistic adaptation, good is rare thanks to player psichology). Things like masters were a first step, but it's tricky, and you know it. I'd like more recipes for almost every item or affix, even if at a prohibitive cost. At least you have something to expect.

The map system needs rework, but it's not something little. It's big expansion worthy. I bet that Act 4 will bring something that it's not just more...
That makes me remember the people that complains about rifts and greater rifts being random bullshit and that they'd rather play bounties or story mode. Other pastures are always greener, :P

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tienbasse написал:

There is absolutely no denying that D3 is much better optimized than PoE, precisely because Blizzard has always been focused on making their games run nicely even on older machines (= typical of their mainstream policy to attract broader crowds).

I dont have an older machine, I have a fairly new one, not super new. now Ive been playing d3 again for a while, first time on this pc, can say without a doubt D3 has way worse performance and for my friends im playing with. Only thing that stutters my pc and drops frames in PoE is mapping with mjolner discharge, same with my buddies I play with, and we are all getting massive stuttering in D3, massive, on a wide range of builds. I play both games maxed out, refuse to play any other way I like my eye candy, In PoE thats never a problem at all unless someones discharging 10 times per second, literally only in that situation do i notice any frame drops. Maybe for old pcs its a different story, in which case fair play.


My feelings having played D3 again a good bit now, theres way less balance, way less build diversity, way more gear walls, way less skill involved ie the game is you either have the gear or you dont, its actually got worse pc performance... I find it funny that forever Ive been reading these factors are bad in PoE and better in D3, and going back to D3 after 2 years I find every problem is worse in D3.

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NeroNoah написал:

Honestly, I think the whole grinding gear thing should be a reason to keep playing, not a extremely big factor in a build.

I kind of agree, and honestly i think thats where d3 becomes a terrible game and poe shines. Im playing crusader, and theres only 1 competitive build for my entire class, condemn, and it requires 8 different legendary items to even function. In order to be competitive and do high rifts as my class I need the weapon, Blade Of Prophecy, to be an ancient legendary. Im closing on paragon 500, still no ancient bop drop, so Im basically locked out of rifts in the 40s purely on that rng of needing 1 ancient legendary to drop. In PoE is there one class that requires even 1 unique item to run a 77/78 map? Nope, not at all, skill accounts for more than gear in poe, D3 is just gear, skill is virtually irrelevant. I was beating Palace maps as an arc with with a moonsorrow, boss and all, I could have beat them with a blue wand crafted from alterations.


I really think poe is the most skill and knowledge gated, least item gated of the modern arpg games. There are builds for every class, many, that can take on the full scope of maps self found. If people pick a build that has trouble self found then that person just failed the game knowledge game, you started as a class and probably with a skill that could absolutely do the entire thing up to 78 maps self found and failed to understand the game enough to make the gear and passive choices that would allow you to do that, you failed to understand the drops you got and how to adapt to them. Not finding a shavs is not a gear wall, deciding to play a build that requires a shavs without knowing you have/can get one is a player error.

Not finding an ancient blade of prophecy I guess too is a player error in a way? the error being I chose to play an entire class that turns out requires this 1 legendary that may never drop to be viable for that higher endgame mapping? You could argue that but are people honestly saying thats a better system? Thats less of a gear wall situation? Thats a better balanced game less reliant on rng? I feel like anyone taking that stance, no reasonable person could even take a guy like that seriously at all. what are upgrades for me as a class? Well my hat, shoulders, gloves, boots, pants, chest, belt, shield, 1 ring and weapon all HAVE to be specific legendary items, no choice at all. The other ring, in order to do higher rifts if I dont wear a unity and have a unity on my follower with the cannot die relic then Im taking 50% more damage than people who have that setup, so its basically mandatory the other ring is unity. That leaves 2 slots, my amulet and my bracers, thats my only 2 slots that are not required to be specific, no negotiation legendary items. Upgrades are I grind, and if I find exactly the same legendary im wearing but it has 687 str and my current one has 642 then its an upgrade of 0.3% dps... does that feel good?

My 2 slots that are actually up for debate, the bracers have a bis item of strongarms, what they do is so much better than any other brace that basically if you have those no other bracer can be an upgrade, other than exactly the same item with a slightly higher roll. They are not essential for the build the way all those other slots are, but its as good as if they are.

So that leaves my amulet, my amulet is the 1 slot where I can actually find any item that has the stats I want and its good to go. I require a socket on it, I require crit chance and crit damage, and that leaves 1 slot free where I can take str or I can take holy damage, so I got this 1 stat variable that can go 1 of 2 ways and Im open to getting this on a range of different legendary items.....


...seriously is anyone defending D3s upgrade system and item system? Its a total joke, 100% fail, literally the worst item system, build system and upgrade through grind system I have ever seen in any arpg in my entire life, by such a long way its in an qntire universe of bad all by itself, a parallel dimension of awful that cannot even exist in the universe every other arpg Ive played i my life exists in.


In terms of builds an items its a worse game now than it has ever been since launch.

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Snorkle_uk написал:

I kind of agree, and honestly i think thats where d3 becomes a terrible game and poe shines. Im playing crusader, and theres only 1 competitive build for my entire class, condemn, and it requires 8 different legendary items to even function. In order to be competitive and do high rifts as my class I need the weapon, Blade Of Prophecy, to be an ancient legendary. Im closing on paragon 500, still no ancient bop drop, so Im basically locked out of rifts in the 40s purely on that rng of needing 1 ancient legendary to drop. In PoE is there one class that requires even 1 unique item to run a 77/78 map? Nope, not at all, skill accounts for more than gear in poe, D3 is just gear, skill is virtually irrelevant. I was beating Palace maps as an arc with with a moonsorrow, boss and all, I could have beat them with a blue wand crafted from alterations.

This is one of the key things that makes PoE shine IMO.

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Pewzor написал:

Browsing over D3 forum and found their latest PoE vs D3 stuff with only 3 pages worth of replies...

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/16202910432

Just like PoE forum bashing D3, lots of PoE is worse comment there as well but with less bitterness and many praising PoE for what PoE is...

shows a lot about PoE community...

At very least they seem to be busy with the game than living on the forum... think about it D3 easily has 100 times more active players than PoE yet their whiteknighting thread is so much shorter than ours...

That forum section is super inactive, the top post of page 2 is from three weeks ago. If D3 vs PoE threads were allowed in General Discussion like they are here, you'd see a lot more pages. Also source on the 100 times more active players?

lol, the people praising poe play poe, and are hence part of both communities. I love how everyone with a detailed, thoughtful reply prefers PoE, in fact, more people on the D3 forums seem to prefer PoE to D3? Funny that.


100 times more active players too, lol, I would say D3 at best has the same active player base, it sells more copies on launch, and then rapidly loses far more of them in a few weeks because thats the sort of game it is. Millions of people buy the D3 games, and millions of people sign up to PoE every year, PoE blatantly holds way more of its players for far longer which offsets the fact that D3s millions sold are maybe 3 times higher than PoE drags in each year. Blizzard sells an awful lot of copies to people who like to play a game for a week and then put it on the shelf, thats the vast majority of its sales.


Even Pewzor prefers PoE, thats why he spends so much time here, has the 3 beside his name, he just thrives on negativity and needs something to fuel it. If D3 was a better game he would be pushing grifts right now and he wouldnt even bother with this place.

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Snorkle_uk написал:

PoE blatantly holds way more of its players for far longer which offsets the fact that D3s millions sold are maybe 3 times higher than PoE drags in each year.

Only GGG could confirm such a statement by releasing statistics. You can see how D3 is doing in the Blizzard/Activision annual reports.

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Mooginator написал:

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Snorkle_uk написал:

I kind of agree, and honestly i think thats where d3 becomes a terrible game and poe shines. Im playing crusader, and theres only 1 competitive build for my entire class, condemn, and it requires 8 different legendary items to even function. In order to be competitive and do high rifts as my class I need the weapon, Blade Of Prophecy, to be an ancient legendary. Im closing on paragon 500, still no ancient bop drop, so Im basically locked out of rifts in the 40s purely on that rng of needing 1 ancient legendary to drop. In PoE is there one class that requires even 1 unique item to run a 77/78 map? Nope, not at all, skill accounts for more than gear in poe, D3 is just gear, skill is virtually irrelevant. I was beating Palace maps as an arc with with a moonsorrow, boss and all, I could have beat them with a blue wand crafted from alterations.

This is one of the key things that makes PoE shine IMO.

That's a ridiculous statement. The only reason for why PoE does "better" is because they didn't add the higher difficulty levels like D3 does.

So just imagine that Greater Rift 30 is the highest content in D3 then compare build diversity there to build diversity in PoE 77/78 maps for a far more accurate comparison.


Edit: Well, they did add Uber Atziri and that reduces the build diversity :).

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Snorkle_uk написал:

I love how everyone with a detailed, thoughtful reply prefers PoE

You are either delusional or intentionally lying if you don't consider FadeXF to have provided detailed thoughtful replies here.

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Snorkle_uk написал:

If D3 was a better game he would be pushing grifts right now and he wouldnt even bother with this place.

Ridiculous statement. Just because you consider a game to be overall better it doesn't mean that it is the best entertainment (compared to all other forms of entertainment) constantly all the time. An example of that are excellent single player games which you beat in less than 200 hours.

Both suck with poe being the biggest offender by trying to ripoff diablo