When are we getting better trading tools?

I don't understand the whole point of these topics - the market is gorgeous and working.

"

ythealien написал:

This is so ridiculous I almost assume you're joking. Anyone can see this is how the game already works.

FAR from.



All self found/self made. And yes, I also have some bought items. Not the best of the best, but more than good enough to beat everything in this game. There are SEVERAL ways to farm, craft and gamble - without running around only picking up currency. The fact that you deem this inefficient, boring or "not worth it", doesn't mean it's not a viable way to beat the game.

The GAME don't "work" this way, unless you make it so. Yes, you CAN do it, but you don't have to. But of course, if you start to trade for EVERYTHING already at level 60, the chances of finding/making anything better becomes slim.

Again, just because YOU view it as the "only" way to play the game, doesn't make you right. And of course, if you already view the game like this, there's no wonder you want an AH, letting you embrace this playstyle even more.

"

Phrazz написал:

I think an instant AH will:
- inflate the economy even more than poe.trade does.
- make prices on everything but BiS items be worth even less than now, much sooner every league.
- change the game in the long run in a negative direction, because every item, boss, drop rate decision and skill is being developed with the AH as a "center". And changes like this WILL make trading even more required than it is now. And you know what? it isn't THAT required now. Stating "it already is like that" isn't a fact, nor a "strong point", it's merely an opinion. You can beat the game and the Atlas without trading in a reasonable time. With "a little bit" trade, it's even easier.

It's no way of adding an instant AH without it becoming the center of everything. Claiming "it already is" isn't just plain wrong, it's ignorant. Because there's A LOT of players using trade as just a supplement when it's really needed, without "playing the market" every few minutes. Players are beating the game this way.

The problem here is that there are no "facts", only opinions. No ARPG I can think of, have implemented an AH with instant buyouts except D3, at least not with success. We don't have anything to compare to. I refuse to see this game becoming D3, where the only "sane" thing to do, was farming currency and buy whatever. And even though YOU play like this in PoE now, doesn't make "it already is like that" true.

Well then, i don't want to be rude but, you're either overlooking "facts" or you're pretty ignorant yourself.

For exemple ; players are already flipping currency and abusing the market when they "can" (knowledge of "how"+investment+items).

The thing is, and it's a funny one, in PoE right now "sellers" are an elite. Because of how it's complicated and tiresome for a newer player ;
-You need to know to price your items (that's a bigger deal than you may think)
-You need PREMIUM stash(s) to store your items
-You need to keep both eyes on the meta and be on edge for FOTM builds
-You need to know what's worth keeping and what's worth vendoring (WICH IS DIFFERENT THAN PRICING YOUR ITEMS)
-ETC, the list goes on for a little while. And keep in mind that while you're doing all thoses checks you are technically competing against other vendors. Wich mean that if you want to really trade-in you need to be able to keep farming "top tier"/"usefull" items. Wich require a build to do so. And if you're crafting, you'll need currency.

Now as if this wasn't enough, you'll need to use the PoE.trade system who's exactly what an AH is all about.
Same.
exact.
process.

Put an item in a specific reserved slot (premium stash tab) => Price it => It got listed.

Kaboom. This is basically a very annoying indirect AH.

Now the funny part ; As i said, traders/vendors right now are an Elite. Because you need some sort of dedication to the whole process and a good/correct ingame knowledge.

My point ? It's a wild guess (not really) but i think most people who are part of this "Elite" just don't want to share a more open and accessible market.

With Poe.trade we already have an indirect AH and all the cancer coming with it. Dumb prices, "meta flipping", BiS/FotM irregularity etc...
The only difference is that it's not accessible to the "casual" player. It's just not.

Far from "D3-ing" the game adding an ingame trading area/emporium would simply open-up the market to more people. It won't dumb down the knowledge on how to price your items or what's worth selling and what's not. But it will allow more people to sell shit, ffs.

Shaper will still be shaper.
Dumb af build will still be dumb af.
Drop rates won't changes.
Game mechanics won't changes either.

As for D3; the AH on this game was here to ripp us of our money and milk us. The whole game was. It's a really bad exemple. PoE is not headed this way.

For me it's painfull to hear people saying they're not selling stuff because there is no AH or simplier method to do it.
Just think for a second of all the nice and unique rare items vendored because of this. That's a real loss for everyone.

"

Zaphkier написал:

Shaper will still be shaper.
Dumb af build will still be dumb af.
Drop rates won't changes.
Game mechanics won't changes either.

Why don't you stop presenting this as facts. You do not know this. You can't know this.

You present sellers as an "elite" group, and list a whole bunch of reasons why, only describing that you need a minimum amount of effort and knowledge to be able to trade successfully. What a shame, right?

I'm not part of any "elite" group. I do not trade much, and I'm far from being rich in this game. And I don't see any point of becoming rich either. I do not have more fun in this game if my exalt count is "100" instead of my "12".

But taking away this barrier of effort and knowledge would make every item in the game accessible to everyone with the push of a button. This may all be "farts and sunshine" in your eyes, but this amount of accessibility isn't necessarily good for the game - and the game's future.

So every boss. Every item. Every drop rate. Every zone. Every whatever that will be implemented in the future, will be implemented with the premise "this accessibility of items is in our game now. People CAN get these items by clicking one button, at inflated prices". Again; I think it's very naive to think that an AH wouldn't affect the future of the game and GGG's balance decisions. But hey, just as you DO NOT KNOW that this won't happen, I DO NOT KNOW that it will - I only fear it. And there's no turning back.

And no, a poe.trade requiring a certain (tho minimal) amount of effort and knowledge is FAR FROM THE same thing as an instant buyout AH with the ability to buy from offline players. You can't even compare the effect these two different systems will have on the game.

It's not the trading part I care about. I would survive if they removed the ability to trade. It's the GAME I care about. And even though I think trade is good for the game, it can also be REALLY BAD for the game if done wrong.

PoE.trade is FAR from perfect, and would be much better off added to the game, controlled and limited by GGG. But it is FAR better than an instant buyout AH.

"

Phrazz написал:

All self found/self made.

What you personally do doesn't matter. You can play solo self-found, beat Shaper with a white weapon equipped, or not wear rings. That doesn't mean the game is designed around or balanced around such things. You are already playing the nightmare world you envision, where the game is designed around trading for insanely rare items.

"

Zaphkier написал:

Just think for a second of all the nice and unique rare items vendored because of this. That's a real loss for everyone.

This is such a simple yet amazing point.

You ever search for an item with a criteria you know is possible, but nobody has one up quite how you want it?

Imagine all of the ones that have been vendored because a player doesn't wanna trade. Maybe they hate poetrade. Maybe they don't know it exists, since it IS 3rd party after all.

Imagine all of the ones that are owned by offline sellers. Maybe your schedule will never align with theirs.

Imagine how many searches have whiffed the perfect fit for you just because of one of the above reasons.

An AH merges the community.

It would literally just be a more-convenient poetrade. It won't inflate things, deflate things, make people spend more time in it... none of this. In fact, if ANYTHING - and actually PRETTY CERTAINLY - people would spend LESS time buying and selling. Prices would even out, since every listing is exposed and out in the open. Lowballers who idle their listing just to deflate the prices will instead get bought out automatically. Highballers who inflate prices because they are one of the only online sellers will no longer be one of the few showed listings, and will just look like idiots way up there.

And anything outside of that is just normal market flow.

The economy right now is fake. Corrupt. When nothing is automated and everything is done by humans, what are the odds it's gonna be fair? Balanced? Pure?

@Phrazz

And you are still here, repeating the same shit over and over again, on every page, so everyone can see how pathetic you and your mental diarrhea are.

I'm not going to participate in this "debate" any longer, just want to point out how you contradict yourself, act childish, and try so hard to defend your subjective opinion by opposing everyone else's.

So:

"

just because YOU view it as the "only" way to play the game, doesn't make you right. And of course, if you already view the game like this, there's no wonder you want an AH, letting you embrace this playstyle even more.

It also works the other way around. In other words, it also applies to YOU. Every 2 or 3 replies you repeat that you can accomplish something in this game without the need of trading and so on. That you don't like easy trading. That you assume there game will revolve around AH provided it was implemented. Who the fuck cares? You don't want AH? Cool, but your crying is so loud I wonder if you're still sane, exile. You're the most active person in this thread who virtually repeat the same shit from previous posts. WE GET IT, YOU DON'T LIKE EASY TRADING. But that's just you. Repeating just in case you didn't fucking get it - that's just you. Got it? Alright, let us continue.

"

Why don't you stop presenting this as facts. You do not know this. You can't know this.

By the same token, you don't know shit, yet you repeat it like a fucking mantra that the changes are inevitable. You're not presenting facts either. All of your puke here revolves around assumptions, so is most of the players' here.

"

But taking away this barrier of effort and knowledge would make every item in the game accessible to everyone with the push of a button. This may all be "farts and sunshine" in your eyes, but this amount of accessibility isn't necessarily good for the game - and the game's future.

This logic is so flawed I wonder how you're capable of breathing. First of all not everything will be available in a single click, stop manipulating and twisting for your own convenience, or else I'll bring up every contradiction you made in this whole thread, not just the recent posts. Poe.trade provides an easy access to everything already, with the only differences between this joke trading way and AH being that you are forced to deal with all kinds of trash and not being able to buy things instantly in the case of 3rd party tools we have now. You can buy everything you need with enough effort, indeed, but why the fuck are you telling all these people that it's healthy for the game? It's masochist.

"

I think it's very naive to think that an AH wouldn't affect the future of the game and GGG's balance decisions. But hey, just as you DO NOT KNOW that this won't happen, I DO NOT KNOW that it will - I only fear it. And there's no turning back.

OH, PLEASE. Neither he nor you know, but you brought the issue of AH being the center of the game. After XX replies you're still at it? At least you admitted it's just your fear, merely your thought. Guess that fear is so big you can't stop bragging about it.

"

It's not the trading part I care about. I would survive if they removed the ability to trade. It's the GAME I care about. And even though I think trade is good for the game, it can also be REALLY BAD for the game if done wrong.

More personal and subjective opinions that nobody cares about to back up yourself. Well done.

"

PoE.trade is FAR from perfect, and would be much better off added to the game, controlled and limited by GGG. But it is FAR better than an instant buyout AH.

For you, perhaps.

Hopefully this is my last post in this nonsense. I'm tired of participating in this drama, yet I'm genuinely amazed by you. I even wanted to ask you a few questions, but realised it is of no use. However, I must say I'm amazed by your tenacity. Were I you, I'd feel bad.

"

Zaphkier написал:

My point ? It's a wild guess (not really) but i think most people who are part of this "Elite" just don't want to share a more open and accessible market.

With Poe.trade we already have an indirect AH and all the cancer coming with it. Dumb prices, "meta flipping", BiS/FotM irregularity etc...
The only difference is that it's not accessible to the "casual" player. It's just not.

Far from "D3-ing" the game adding an ingame trading area/emporium would simply open-up the market to more people. It won't dumb down the knowledge on how to price your items or what's worth selling and what's not. But it will allow more people to sell shit, ffs.

I agree, and have said it off and on for years when I'm around. The people who are so adamant about not having an AH in-game are mostly people who want to keep the status quo and keep milking PoE.Trade and casuals for all they are worth.

And the more you argue with people about it the more obvious it becomes. There are some naive ones here and there that were burned by D3 or like SSF or whatever, but a lot of people gain a ton of wealth by abusing people who don't have a clue. Right now, the economy in PoE is a seller's paradise. No regulation, no punishment, nothing. You can abuse it to your heart's content for wealth with no reprocussions. The person who suffers are legitimate buyers. Noobs. Casuals. Basic traders. These are people who would benefit from a less abuseable in-game system. And thats why you get so many people that invested into the issue. You get so many people defending the status quo. There isn't an easier mob in the game to farm than an inexperienced casual player.

"

ythealien написал:

"

Phrazz написал:

All self found/self made.

What you personally do doesn't matter. You can play solo self-found, beat Shaper with a white weapon equipped, or not wear rings. That doesn't mean the game is designed around or balanced around such things. You are already playing the nightmare world you envision, where the game is designed around trading for insanely rare items.

Shieeeet!

I've never said the game isn't balanced around trading. Of course it is balanced around the accessibility of gear through trade, hence the pretty low drop rates. That was pretty much my point, if you managed to read my whole post. If said accessibility - you know, the one the game is balanced around now - goes WAY UP, I think they'll have to adjust the drop rates thereafter - and trade becomes even more required than it is.

Not anything you would care about, maybe, if you're one of the dudes already buying everything you need. But A LOT(!!) of players would care, because the game might become a monotone piece of "trade before doing anything".

"

Danielskiv написал:

More personal and subjective opinions that nobody cares about to back up yourself. Well done.

And so are all of your "points", yet you are also still here. And by your tone, name-calling and shit that does not belong in a debate, you view your "personal and subjective opinions" as... More genuine? More ethical?

It's a shame when adult people can't disagree without stuff like:

"

how pathetic you and your mental diarrhea are

I'm not going to sink as low as you. I sort of feel bad for you, and how you're unable to disagree with someone.