VP was never the problem

"

Snorkle_uk написал:

"

armour works against big hits.

No it doesnt.Thats the problem



AS you can see the bigger the enemy hit the less reduction you get.
So if a mob/boss hits you for 10000 and u have max armour reduction you only get 2 % reduction
down from 90% +

Again this is "working as intended" so dont understand why people use granite flasks
or stack armour , its only effective agains big pack of mobs and against small hits.
IT WILL NEVER SAVE YOU from death

yeah I know how armour works, it works fine against big hits. I did enjoy the bit where you suggested a mob might deal 10,000 physical damage in a single hit though.

Have you ever looked at the numbers with an example of realistic large monster physical damage and realistic player armour?

A standard armour build should have about 20k - 30k armour. Lets look at 20k, a dedicated armour build shouldnt have less than that, and we will presume hes not using a granite flask to get more.

A strong guardian like minotaur, his sweep and his attacks do 4943 damage, with 30% of it converted to lightning. That means 3295 of the damage is physical.

If we put that into the armour formula vs 20k armour we find that armour gives a 37.7% damage reduction.

37.7%, against a hard hitting guardian. So when a mob in a map hits your armour build so hard your armour reduction becomes 2%.... yeah that doesnt happen, at all, ever, under any circumstances. If your armour is low enough to be reduced to 2% by a random monster in a map then you are not an armour build, you dont actually have proper armour.

The kind of reduction youre talking about wouldnt even happen from taking a shaper slam. Those things can deal up to 15k damage from what Ive seen, and even against a 15k damage shaper slam youre still getting 11% damage reduction from 20k armour, not 2%.


You dont stand in shaper slams, you dont stand in a vaal oversoul slam, youre not supposed to survive these things. Realistic hard hitting physical damage from monsters and bosses in maps is in the ballpark of 3k-7k physical damage. 20k armour is a 40% damage reduction against a 3k hit and a 22.2% damage reduction against a 7k hit.

A lightning coil for example gives a 22.5% damage reduction against any phys hit, but does not stack with stuff like endurance and basalt.


Realistically a big hit is like 5k phys damage, thats a big hit by the standards of what you will take in a map. The realistic defense of an armour build is 20k armour, 6 endurance, basalt, fortify with maybe a lvl5 enfeeble on cwdt. The armour alone provides a 28.5% damage reduction.

The total of their defense will reduce a 5k phys hit to 831 damage.



Armour is fine, armour builds deal with large phys damage well enough. If armour gave you a flat 90% phys damage reduction against any hit then a 15k shaper slam would do 15k damage to an evasion build, 15k damage to a ci build and 1.5k damage to an armour build. It would be completely broken.

The problem with how ur looking at it is that you think 90% damage reduction is balanced and then when it goes down from there its shit. A 20-30% damage reduction is balanced, armour is balanced and fine against big hits, its just ridiculously op against small hits, which is fine because the big hits are what matter.

Investing in Armour is ridiculous bad because 1) it does not have much effect on big hits 2) it does nothing vs elemental damage which is extremely prevalent in end game.

"

LowBudget780 написал:

Armour is garbage, anyone who goes out of their way to stack armor is either a total newb or just straight up confused.

show me the math that backs that up.

"

Nephalim написал:

Investing in Armour is ridiculous bad because 1) it does not have much effect on big hits

again, show me the math on not much effect on big hits.

Oh yes. This graphic shows that armour works better on big hits.
For example, for a character with 10K armour:
-: getting hit for 1K damage means a reduction of 50% => 500 damage blocked.
-: getting hit for 10 K damage means a reduction of 10% => 1000 damage blocked.

Well, of course, you still die from that 10K hit. That's the point of the system: some hits are just there to simply kill you.
Now, you can cheat that with immortal call, a bajillion endurance charges, conversion mechanics or whatever. But the design behind the armour system is actually quite sound.

Whether the damage output design of this game is sound or not, that is another debate. I personnaly think that the leech AND flask system are extremely flawed and force a situation that promotes one shots.

Back to the point of my post: armour prevente more damage from big hits than small hits. It's just that because the hit is big, all you wanted was % reduction. If the situation that got you killed was getting hit by 1000 damage source each dealing 100 damage and armour provided % reduction, you would whine all the same for a system like we have now.

Yes i leveled discharge marauder to lv. 100 I had all defence aviable 85% elemental resistances 6s immortal call, huge life recovery, damage lowering flasks. Everything perfect BUT I was killing phoenix for 45!!! Minutes. I sacrificed all power to defences. And result? NEVER AGAIN. That's for those whoo sceaming about investing more to defences and you will be ok without VP.

Ps. This character is pretty much dead and waiting for reroll to something more powerfull.

"

Kastmar написал:

Yes i leveled discharge marauder to lv. 100 I had all defence aviable 85% elemental resistances 6s immortal call, huge life recovery, damage lowering flasks. Everything perfect BUT I was killing phoenix for 45!!! Minutes. I sacrificed all power to defences. And result? NEVER AGAIN. That's for those whoo sceaming about investing more to defences and you will be ok without VP.

Ps. This character is pretty much dead and waiting for reroll to something more powerfull.

Dude... it's a balance. Sacrificing "all power" into defenses is fine if your only goal is to survive however if you're looking to effectively clear content what did you expect?

"

CaptainWARLORD написал:

"

polimeris написал:

Oh yes. This graphic shows that armour works better on big hits.
For example, for a character with 10K armour:
-: getting hit for 1K damage means a reduction of 50% => 500 damage blocked.
-: getting hit for 10 K damage means a reduction of 10% => 1000 damage blocked.

That is not how Armour works.

The maximum damage it will block is /10 the Armour Rating. E.g. 1000 AR can max. prevent 100 Physical damage. Your 10k Example with 10k Armour results in 1000 Physical damage it can prevent at max.

That's why Armour is terrible compared to flat phys reduction from Endurance charges and Co.

If I have 40k Armour, trash mobs don't do shit, but bosses and buffed rares will still hit like a truck.

E: To make this more understandable: For your 10k example I'd need 90k Armour to prevent 90% of the damage, e.g. 9000 Physical damage.

so if we look at the guardian example earlier where a minotaurs sweep does 3295 physical damage, 40k armour would give you a 54.8% damage reduction. Thats more damage reduction than 13 endurance charges.

you played many 13 endurance charge builds in your time?


Show me the math on what physical damage you think a rare monster is dealing and how endurance charges are better than armour at mitigating it.

"

LowBudget780 написал:

"

Snorkle_uk написал:

"

LowBudget780 написал:

Armour is garbage, anyone who goes out of their way to stack armor is either a total newb or just straight up confused.

show me the math that backs that up.

CaptainWARLORD just did.

no actually, he didnt.

Snorkle, please stop. The popular opinion on armor here ensures that GGG won't touch it.