HP in POE is what IAS was to D3?

Remember when in D3, just about every piece of gear that could have Increased Attack Speed, was worthless unless it had that mod on it, until it was nerfed to the ground.

I feel like this is the case with +HP mods on gear in Path Of Exile as well as HP in general. While not all builds utilize HP (lol IC), 90%+ probably do. I'm not talking about gear exclusively, but HP in general, including passive nodes.

In Hardcore, it's even worse. How many of the top 100 on hardcore are stacking ES or Armor or Evasion over HP (aside from IC builds...if there are any..maybe summoners?) or DPS or anything else over HP?

"Oh those gloves are awesome! Too bad they don't have +HP, otherwise I would use them"
"Hey help me build x character" "OK, go grab those 20 HP nodes, skip the 3 armor ones there because you can get more HP instead, then add few dmg nodes and you're done"

Not advocating HP nerf, but can we please have some alternatives?

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Melkrow написал:

Remember when in D3, just about every piece of gear that could have Increased Attack Speed, was worthless unless it had that mod on it, until it was nerfed to the ground.

Funny. In the D3 world, I am the author of this highly influential Demon Hunter build guide, which is actually built around how non-essential and overhyped attack speed was (is?).

But I digress. I think some similar arguments can be made here. If you're going for a lot of crowd control skills (and you're not in hardcore league), you might be better off not stressing about life so much. And of course there's CI, which might not be quite as dead as people make it out to be... plus perhaps a couple things I haven't thought of.

Is gearing/skilling for life OP enough were it should be nerfed? Definitely. But it's not a something-to-nothing ratio; I wouldn't say an item is worthless just because it doesn't have life on it, merely that it would be worth a lot more if it did.

Yes HP is good, but HP alone will not suffice.

You need capped ele resists and around -10% chaos along with ~7k armor if you want to be safe.

Not to mention swapping gear for elemental weakness maps and stuff.

Also the game is about efficiency - I am running 5400 HP on HC - could I get more? Yes, I could def pick up more life nodes in the passive tree, but it's not worth it because I feel pretty safe at 5400 and losing the dps will make my efficiency plummet.

Big reason why IAS got nerfed in D3 was that not only was the it insanely good for DPS, it synergized extremely well with LoH mechanics so it was basically an offense and defense super stat combined into one.

Life doesn't give you any offensive capabilities in this game. These ARPG's are really just a balancing act of defense and offense....you want enough defense to be safe then from there you just add offense while maintaining your defense. When you had a stat like IAS that gave you both, you just stack it over everything else and it gave you offense and defense.

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Oatz написал:

These ARPG's are really just a balancing act of defense and offense...

Pretty much all that needs to be said.

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Oatz написал:

Yes HP is good, but HP alone will not suffice.

You need capped ele resists and around -10% chaos along with ~7k armor if you want to be safe.

Not to mention swapping gear for elemental weakness maps and stuff.

Also the game is about efficiency - I am running 5400 HP on HC - could I get more? Yes, I could def pick up more life nodes in the passive tree, but it's not worth it because I feel pretty safe at 5400 and losing the dps will make my efficiency plummet.

Big reason why IAS got nerfed in D3 was that not only was the it insanely good for DPS, it synergized extremely well with LoH mechanics so it was basically an offense and defense super stat combined into one.

Life doesn't give you any offensive capabilities in this game. These ARPG's are really just a balancing act of defense and offense....you want enough defense to be safe then from there you just add offense while maintaining your defense. When you had a stat like IAS that gave you both, you just stack it over everything else and it gave you offense and defense.

Well, you sir are a hypocrite. 5400 HP and you don't consider that "stacking HP"? That's exactly what I'm talking about, you are stacking HP, 5.4K HP is a lot. Link your gear please, let's see how many of those gear pieces do NOT have HP on them.

WTB Hardcore character that has <2K HP and heavily focuses on other defenses (aside from ES). Not gonna happen.

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Melkrow написал:

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Oatz написал:

Yes HP is good, but HP alone will not suffice.

You need capped ele resists and around -10% chaos along with ~7k armor if you want to be safe.

Not to mention swapping gear for elemental weakness maps and stuff.

Also the game is about efficiency - I am running 5400 HP on HC - could I get more? Yes, I could def pick up more life nodes in the passive tree, but it's not worth it because I feel pretty safe at 5400 and losing the dps will make my efficiency plummet.

Big reason why IAS got nerfed in D3 was that not only was the it insanely good for DPS, it synergized extremely well with LoH mechanics so it was basically an offense and defense super stat combined into one.

Life doesn't give you any offensive capabilities in this game. These ARPG's are really just a balancing act of defense and offense....you want enough defense to be safe then from there you just add offense while maintaining your defense. When you had a stat like IAS that gave you both, you just stack it over everything else and it gave you offense and defense.

Well, you sir are a hypocrite. 5400 HP and you don't consider that "stacking HP"? That's exactly what I'm talking about, you are stacking HP, 5.4K HP is a lot. Link your gear please, let's see how many of those gear pieces do NOT have HP on them.

WTB Hardcore character that has <2K HP and heavily focuses on other defenses (aside from ES). Not gonna happen.

Aside from ES? Why aside from ES? Because if someone tells you is still ok with half HP half ES is gonna make look dumb?
I play hardcore, and i don't want to die. I prefer hitting a white mob 5 times before it dies rather than die.

Many ppl prefer 1-hitting the mobs. Good for them.
Also,do you think getting a perfect rolled item that includes defence and offence ( look at those elemental damage quivers,with hp and resistances) is easy to get? NO! It is a top end,late game item!
How the heck are you gonna SURVIVE in a game mode that needs you to SURVIVE without SURVIVABILITY? And don't start the crap with "ARMOR IS USELESS OMGOMGOMG". I played a melee character,a ranger, and a summoner. And i can tell you that without armor my summoner feels really fragile. Armor works. Maybe some tweaks can be done,but it works!
You need to mitigate the damage via resists or armor/evasion and then have enough life to not get 1-hitted.
In default you can get your life high enough to prevent one hit and then spend everything on offence.
In hardcore you CAN'T expect to not get a second hit.

Also realise that in a fresh economy,with no easy access to godlike items everyone will go really defencive at the start (by taking huge amounts of hp/armor/es/evasion/resistances)and when he can safely stay with a good life pool (either hp or es , this is your life pool!) they will start balancing their dps by removing HP/ES nodes,and getting more offencive. They will get their defence through armor gear.

Play the game,and use your brain to think normally about what survivability means.

So, how much HP do you have on your main HC character?

Godlike items are irrelevant to this discussion.


Still, I pose a question, which I suppose only GGG has answer to, how many of the top 100 HC characters are NOT stacking HP.

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Melkrow написал:

So, how much HP do you have on your main HC character?

Godlike items are irrelevant to this discussion.


Still, I pose a question, which I suppose only GGG has answer to, how many of the top 100 HC characters are NOT stacking HP.

I did vaal merciless with my ranger at 2.200 hp,
1900 hp with my summoner.

What you and many of the others complaining (if you are not one more fancy "troll" guy) don't understand is the difference of damage mitigation and health pool.

Even if you got 80% fire damage reduction from your resistances you will still get this 20%.

Where will this 20% damage will got? To your HP or ES.
What if you are not fast enough (i'm not!) to avoid 10 fireballs coming to you,and each one does 1000 damage (before mitigation) ? I will take 2k damage!
What if i lag too? And don't start the usual,lag is always a problem in an online game. Side of problem doesn't matter.
There is NO way you won't get hit. If you couldn't get hit,then why should i play with a build that gets hit? Why there should be defences if you could totally avoid to get hit?

Get your facts straight and understand what damage mitigation is and how it works in every game in existance.

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Melkrow написал:

Well, you sir are a hypocrite. 5400 HP and you don't consider that "stacking HP"? That's exactly what I'm talking about, you are stacking HP, 5.4K HP is a lot. Link your gear please, let's see how many of those gear pieces do NOT have HP on them.

WTB Hardcore character that has <2K HP and heavily focuses on other defenses (aside from ES). Not gonna happen.

Well the point is that if I had 5400 HP and no resists or no armor then I would die easily.

Defense is multiple stats (hp, ele resists, armor, chaos resist) if you neglect 1 of them you are at risk of dying.

If ALL you needed was to stack life life life and nothing else then I would agree, but you really don't.

The way you should gear is get 6-7k armor, max ele resists, about -10% chaos, then as much HP as you can, as much dmg as you can.

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Oatz написал:

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Melkrow написал:

Well, you sir are a hypocrite. 5400 HP and you don't consider that "stacking HP"? That's exactly what I'm talking about, you are stacking HP, 5.4K HP is a lot. Link your gear please, let's see how many of those gear pieces do NOT have HP on them.

WTB Hardcore character that has <2K HP and heavily focuses on other defenses (aside from ES). Not gonna happen.

Well the point is that if I had 5400 HP and no resists or no armor then I would die easily.

Defense is multiple stats (hp, ele resists, armor, chaos resist) if you neglect 1 of them you are at risk of dying.

If ALL you needed was to stack life life life and nothing else then I would agree, but you really don't.

The way you should gear is get 6-7k armor, max ele resists, about -10% chaos, then as much HP as you can, as much dmg as you can.

The point is, what if you didn't have 5.4K HP, but instead had 1K HP, but your armor/resists are so high that you take exactly the same % of your total life when you are hit by the same attack. Why is that not possible in POE? Why do I have to stack HP, why can't I go extreme and stack something else and be just as effective?

Why are you bringing up if you had 0 resistances, if you had this, if you don't have that. Who cares. If you had 40K HP with 0 resistances you're fucked, what's your point exactly?

Here's my point, very simple, so a dumbass like you can understand.

Imaginary example:

Right now in POE, your character has the following:
- 20 Nodes worth of life
- 3 Nodes worth of Armor
- All gear pieces have +HP mod on them.

Resistances are irreverent, everybody can max those out

That character above is very effective, it works, it works well, it's the cookie cutter.

WHAT IF instead you wanted to make a character with this:
- 20 Armor nodes
- 3 Life Nodes
- All gear pieces have equivalent +Armor mods on them

Would that character be even REMOTELY as effective as the first one? The answer is big fat NO. And I find that to be broken.