HP in POE is what IAS was to D3?

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dr3af написал:
I'll give 2 easy accessable players.
Kripparian and nugigen.

Kripparian got 9k life and said he builded a tank. His previous character,the "wander" got 5k life. Do you see a difference in life stacking?Watch 1 video of him doing maps with the tank and 1 with the "wander". Do you see a difference in damage?

Nugi got a ranger with 5.7k life. Do you see a difference between kripparian's tank life and nugi's ranger life?

Let's return to kripparian and his wander. He got MANY damage node. To boost his wand damage. How did he manage to get high level and do that insane amount of damage?

Who told you that the maximum life is 5k? Kripparian's tank got 9k. So 5k is not the max amount of life you can get.

Take those 3 builds and see the differences.

About the elemental damage ,No. That doesn't stop me to remove a 8% life multiplier to get a 12% damage node. I will still got enough life and more damage.
Also try to understand the difference between damage mitigation and health pool.
You can stack armor and resistances and get less hp. But to afford getting hit you still need hp so the hit that gets mitigated don't actually kill you.
You're confusing so many different things. There is only one single difference between a character with 5k life and one with 9k life. It's not passive points. It's not the number of items with +Life bonuses. It's one single item - Kaom's Heart. Any offensive differences are due to the weapons they're using, or are simply coincidental.

If there is any difference in damage between those two characters, it's due to the lack of sockets on Kaom's Heart not synergyzing with wands, but support gems and niche uniques are beyond the point of this discussion.

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Let's return to kripparian and his wander. He got MANY damage node. To boost his wand damage. How did he manage to get high level and do that insane amount of damage?

Who told you that the maximum life is 5k? Kripparian's tank got 9k. So 5k is not the max amount of life you can get.
Again, you keep bringing Kaom's Heart into this. Kaom's Heart costs around 50 exalted orbs, and is the only practical way to get more than around 6,000 Life. Kaom's Heart is so expensive specifically BECAUSE life is so incredibly valuable and superior to all other defensive stats just like the OP said.

Kaom's Heart is an extremely rare and valuable item that the vast majority of the population will not see for a very long time. It's beyond the scope of this discussion.
Последняя редакция: Strill#1101. Время: 1 мар. 2013 г., 16:59:58
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ScrotieMcB написал:
1) I really don't agree there. Should combining defenses with life be more effective than only stacking life? Yes, and right now it's not; this is the exact reason why some fixing (nerfling life nodes and/or buffing defenses) is in order. Should stacking defenses be as effective as stacking life? It doesn't matter; mindlessly stacking any one thing at the exclusion of everything else should lead to a less effective build, so as long as armour+life build is more effective than both pure life and pure armour build, I don't care how pure armour and pure life compare. The way I look at things, people who champion pure defense builds while harshly criticizing pure life builds reek of hypocrisy.
Can we please keep discussions realistic? The situations you propose are impossible or are a false choice.

1. It is impossible to make a build which completely eschews either life or defenses. Defenses are always present on gear. Gear with large defense bonuses can be obtained without sacrificing any life. Comparisons should be made in terms of how one divides their MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE resources (i.e. passives, support gems, unique items which favor one stat over the other).

2. It IS possible to make a viable build which invests heavily in life passives and invests minimally in other defensive passives.

3. It IS possible to make a viable build which invests heavily in energy shield passives and invests minimally in other defensive passives.

3. It is NOT possible to make a viable build which invests heavily in armour or evasion passives and invests minimally in other defensive passives, even against enemies who do not bypass those forms of defense.
Последняя редакция: Strill#1101. Время: 1 мар. 2013 г., 17:13:03
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Strill написал:
Can we please keep discussions realistic? The situations you propose are impossible or are a false choice.... Comparisons should be made in terms of how one divides their MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE resources (i.e. passives, support gems, unique items which favor one stat over the other).

I was focusing more on passives. Support gems are offense except for outliers like Blind, and I guess considering uniques is important too, hadn't really thought about that. Still, I wasn't unrealistic; the passive tree can (and should!) be changed to make life-stacking less profitable. I have a link to a suggestion post in my signature.
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Strill написал:
1. It is impossible to make a build which completely eschews either life or defenses. Defenses are always present on gear. Gear with large defense bonuses can be obtained without sacrificing any life.

Obviously you can't completely eschew both. However, your points on gear are false at worst and misleading at best. With rares at the highest gear levels, perfect defenses would require three affixes, and life is also an affix; with uniques, well, each one offers unique bonuses. At low levels, this is still important; obviously they could have both with luck, but a player will favor either a defense affix or a life affix and prioritize one over the other with limited resources.
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Strill написал:
2. It IS possible to make a viable build which invests heavily in life passives and invests minimally in other defensive passives.
This is true, and needs fixing, or at least a downward adjustment. Players should be motivated to take both life and defensive passives, not just one or the other.
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Strill написал:
3. It IS possible to make a viable build which invests heavily in energy shield passives and invests minimally in other defensive passives.
For CI's sake, one would hope so.
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Strill написал:
3. It is NOT possible to make a viable build which invests heavily in armour or evasion passives and invests minimally in other defensive passives, even against enemies who do not bypass those forms of defense.
Good. I hope someday stacking life at the expense of everything else is seen as just about equally foolhardy.
When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted.
Последняя редакция: ScrotieMcB#2697. Время: 1 мар. 2013 г., 17:22:53
Comparing the HP values between Kripp builds is completely unfair since he got Kaom's like, last night.
Oh for the love of Vaal, kill me, some of you are so stupid that I'm questioning my sanity.

YES Hardcore (and Softcore) characters SHOULD STACK HP, because it ensures survival. Nobody is arguing that.

YES, HP is the most effective, and should be used. Nobody is arguing that.


THE PROBLEM, however, is that stacking HP is THE ONLY VIABLE OPTION. That is a POOR DESIGN, that is a poor mechanic for the game. Nerf HP? No, Buff other shit? YES PLEASE!

FUCK! It's a simple thing to understand.

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