So GGG, how's that improved player retention coming along?

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suszterpatt написал:

Harbinger had better retention than Delve is having.

It's not exactly an apples to apples comparison. Harbinger league coincided with an expansion....the biggest expansion the game has seen (Acts 5-10).

I personally loved the Harbinger league (more than the story line expansion). To see it perform better than another league wouldn't surprise me personally but it's simply not an equal comparison.

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Nubatron написал:

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suszterpatt написал:

Harbinger had better retention than Delve is having.

It's not exactly an apples to apples comparison. Harbinger league coincided with an expansion....the biggest expansion the game has seen (Acts 5-10).

I personally loved the Harbinger league (more than the story line expansion). To see it perform better than another league wouldn't surprise me personally but it's simply not an equal comparison.

That expansion changed nothing about the endgame, only the story mode. People can get through that in a couple hours of playtime. Are you saying that the story has more of an impact on retention, even into week 2-3, than the league mechanic that's present everywhere?

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suszterpatt написал:

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Nubatron написал:

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suszterpatt написал:

Harbinger had better retention than Delve is having.

It's not exactly an apples to apples comparison. Harbinger league coincided with an expansion....the biggest expansion the game has seen (Acts 5-10).

I personally loved the Harbinger league (more than the story line expansion). To see it perform better than another league wouldn't surprise me personally but it's simply not an equal comparison.

That expansion changed nothing about the endgame, only the story mode. People can get through that in a couple hours of playtime. Are you saying that the story has more of an impact on retention, even into week 2-3, than the league mechanic that's present everywhere?

It certainly took longer to complete (some folks actually pay attention to the story during first play through), brought back old players who stayed for the 2nd honeymoon feeling, etc.

I took a break from POE and came back for 3.0 and I've been back ever since; as is the case with several of my friends. I doubt we're special.

Most I played since Breach. Abyss was decent too but otherwise game got stale fast.

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Nubatron написал:

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suszterpatt написал:

That expansion changed nothing about the endgame, only the story mode. People can get through that in a couple hours of playtime. Are you saying that the story has more of an impact on retention, even into week 2-3, than the league mechanic that's present everywhere?

It certainly took longer to complete (some folks actually pay attention to the story during first play through), brought back old players who stayed for the 2nd honeymoon feeling, etc.

I took a break from POE and came back for 3.0 and I've been back ever since; as is the case with several of my friends. I doubt we're special.

So then what you're saying is, slowing down leveling and progress through the story mode is a more efficient way to retain players than adding an infinitely scaling endgame?

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suszterpatt написал:

So then what you're saying is, slowing down leveling and progress through the story mode is a more efficient way to retain players than adding an infinitely scaling endgame?

That's not even close to what I was saying.

I was saying that comparing Harbinger to Delve is not a same to same comparison because of the reasons I outlined. Harbinger held on to people longer because it had a ton more content to take in and that certainly slowed down some folks.

If you want to compare leagues, Incursion and Delve seem more comparable because they didn't include significant story line content that would need to be learned above and beyond the league mechanic.

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Nubatron написал:

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suszterpatt написал:

So then what you're saying is, slowing down leveling and progress through the story mode is a more efficient way to retain players than adding an infinitely scaling endgame?

That's not even close to what I was saying.

I was saying that comparing Harbinger to Delve is not a same to same comparison because of the reasons I outlined. Harbinger held on to people longer because it had a ton more content to take in and that certainly slowed down some folks.

If you want to compare leagues, Incursion and Delve seem more comparable because they didn't include significant story line content that would need to be learned above and beyond the league mechanic.

That still sounds like the same argument.

Incursion:
- unchanged story (compared to previous league)
- repetitive endgame
- worst retention

Delve:
- unchanged story
- infinite endgame
- mediocre retention

Harbinger:
- significantly slower story
- unchanged endgame
- best retention


If that's not clear evidence that endgame is too late to start fixing retention, then I don't know what is.

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suszterpatt написал:

That still sounds like the same argument.

Incursion:
- unchanged story (compared to previous league)
- repetitive endgame
- worst retention

Delve:
- unchanged story
- infinite endgame
- mediocre retention

Harbinger:
- significantly slower story
- unchanged endgame
- best retention


If that's not clear evidence that endgame is too late to start fixing retention, then I don't know what is.

Man, I don't know to how to put it more plainly. I'm not making an argument for or against end game stuff for POE. This thread doesn't feel like the place to have that discussion in an objective way, so why bother.

All I'm saying is Harbinger retention and Delve retention are just too different in terms of release content for it to be useful in the discussion.

I can't put it more plainly than that. There just are not simpler words that I can form.

That seems pretty normal for most games. When the game is new or there's new content lots of people hope in and then they fall of quickly.

harbinger was a lot more fun than delve! even though in the entire league I found only 2 ex shards and NO EX! instead of 2-4 ex I usually get

but on topic, as long as ggg doesn't abolish temp leagues and create a permanent mode that makes you want to log in every day, there will be no player retention. and it doesn't seem like ggg wants any player retention either. ideally they want a steady influx of people who spend a lot of money on stash tabs and bragging mtx as fast as possible and leave due to disappointment after a few leagues. cause that is how their shitty business model works!

the problem isn't delve, the problem is the concept of temporary leagues and the lack of any long-term reward from playing em (cosmetic mtx obviously don't count for shit).