The mod's range was only checked when the stat was rolled, so they load with the "2" value they were stored with.
Cant you force game to check this values AGAIN on login or smth? Even one forced check in a patch day and boom! all silverbranches are +1. Not each time you login but one time always when unique is changed.
Not possible?
Or other idea (sorry if stupid its late here):
Make all Silverbranches (future changed uniques) UNIDENTIFIED in patch day. It will force players to ID then again and force the game to roll stats again. Effect? No legacy items.
If somoene have equipped silverbranch with games, gems may be stripped to inventory - if inventory is full... there is a problem lol. ;) dunno... temporary 'read-only' stash tab?
Последняя редакция: KarraKurri#7943. Время: 5 апр. 2013 г., 22:47:11
- when I say "you" in this post it's a generic POE player not anyone in particular.
As for gaining wealth without skill or luck - I disagree.
It takes some effort, trading or luck to get that "legacy" unique in the first place. It takes some personal willpower not to sell off anything with value in your stash just so you can make your existing characters more powerful.
Players who found and traded uniques early may have gotten more for them they would have gotten a bit later, but that isn't the game's fault. Players who sold items when chaos orbs were falling out of the sky probably got a lot more for them. Items are still overpriced in terms of currency, IMO based off of relative drop rates, and so someone who has recently sold an item has likely gotten more wealth than they deserved. Again, that's not the game's fault. It won't be the game's fault when an item has legacy stats (for better or worse) either.
Someone who sold their Silverbranch last week for a few more orbs than it is worth can't really complain that its now worth even more. Your item, your choice to sell or hang onto it.
Likewise, someone who refuses to sell a Lioneye's glare for 3 exalts and then sees the price plummet to a single exalt because GGG makes a buffed version can't complain either.
You can sell that old dusty painting in the garage for a few hundred now, or hang onto it and hope it appreciates like a Picasso later. Timing is everything -patience can be a blessing or a curse in trading.
That trade should be instantly and consistently gratifying, with no regrets and complete predictability would turn POE into another D2 auction house fiasco.
No one is forcing you to sell your uniques. No one is stealing orbs from your stash. That you get a good deal or a bum deal at times is part of the trading game.
For instance: You can turn all those low level orbs into alts and fuses yourself, or you can let someone profit off doing the work for you.
That someone will be crying because they sold their unique for orbs to roll a five or six link is inevitable. I already know plenty of people that I game with that have spent 5 times the currency to get back items they have sold when they decide they actually need it.
In the meantime, players like myself who hang onto every unique they find (ooh, a whole half stash page - must be pay to win) and remain currency poor should not be penalized because we didn't choose to sell everything to get uber gear right away.
I've spent most of the last 2 weeks trying to find a Mortem Morsu claw for my cyclone witch. I'm hoping the poisonous hit DOT combined with all those hits makes the build viable. I'm not sure how many GCPs worth of drops I have lost trying to find that one unique, and I don't expect GGG to compensate me for the unfair loss of my potential wealth. I do think it would be unfair, if I did find a Mortem Morsu after those 100+ hours, and GGG decided to nerf all of them and take the poisonous hit function away.
If they nerf it before I find one, than I'll just have to save up and try to get it despite the extra costs. Such is the rough life of an exile. At least the chance to still acquire one, legacy or not, will still be there.
It takes some luck, foresight and effort to acquire and hang onto items to use later. That other players are short sighted, greedy and impatient and want to complain when those factors deprive them of wealth they think they deserve is silly.
Some players may sell/buy or horde Silverbranches for lots of exalts. GGG might turn around and undo the nerf or even buff new Silverbranches so they are even better, and someone, somewhere will act as if they have been cheated when it was their own greed.
Its like the passive skill tree - choices have consequences, and in POE that is a very good thing.
There is no argument about skill involved. There is zero skill involved in getting the unique. The only factor is luck. You have to be lucky enough to own a unique that will get legacy status befoer it does. That's all there is to it. It creates an unfair advantage for those that were lucky enough.
'But everything else in the game is luck based, what makes this different?'
The fact that in this case the advantage provided is unfair. With crafting and looting everyone has the same chances. You can influence those chances with stuff like IIR and IIQ, but so can everyone else.
In this case you are creating an advantage for people that were lucky enough to find/buy/craft a certain item before a certain time, and leaving those that found the exact same item after that certain time at a disadvantage.
And as it was said before, if we have a legacy silverbranch, why don't we have legacy spell totem? Or legacy summon skeletons? Etc.
Silverbranch
In the case of Silverbranch, as many of you will have concluded from my above explaination, we didn't change what stat it uses, but what value the mod could roll. When and item gains a mod, the value of each stat is rolled within that mod's value range. Previously, for Silverbranch, that value was 2-2, so all of them had +2 to bow gems. Post-patch, it's 1-1, so all have +1.
Existing items are already in the database, stored with the correct mod, and with the value of "2" for that stat, so they still have +2 - when loaded, they get the mod, look what stat that mod gives, and then apply the stored value to that stat. The mod's range was only checked when the stat was rolled, so they load with the "2" value they were stored with.
It's possible for us to make this kind of change retroactively, and this has been done in the past, but it involves a bunch of work setting up stuff to upgrade all items to a new version, and defining that upgrade code as checking for that particular mod and changing the stored value for it if present. We usually use these 'migrations' for more fundamental changes (such as when skill gems first got quality, we had to migrate all the items to a new version and have that migration add the capability for quality to all existing items that were skill gems). It takes a bit of work and a lot of testing to make very sure there's no corner case that will break items, so we don't usually do these just to change mod values unless absolutely necessary.
Then, unless I'm missing something, and please correct me if I'm wrong, you are saying some uniques will get nerfed retroactively and some won't. Right?
Well, at least now I know I shouldn't care for uniques since I never know which one will get nerfed retroactively and which one will retain it's overpowered status.
As Mark explained, this isn't at all about whether the change is a nerf or a buff - it just so happens that the way we're buffing Voll's Protector is in a way that changes the mechanic rather than the item.
Where possible we try to avoid creating "legacy" items. I would not expect there to be many such changes in the future, but they can happen.
The amount of work required to fix the Silverbranches would be better spent on improving any other part of the game, especially considering there are many other types of changes we may have to make in the future that put items into a state that isn't consistent with how they'll spawn if a new one is found.
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Последняя редакция: Chris#0000. Время: 5 апр. 2013 г., 23:07:40
Where possible we try to avoid creating "legacy" items. The amount of work required to fix the Silverbranches would be better spent on improving any other part of the game, especially considering there are many other types of changes we may have to make in the future that put items into a state that isn't consistent with how they'll spawn if a new one is found.
That's great and while I appreciate the fact that you'll spend that time improving other parts of the game, you are still opting for an inconsistent system.
This discourages (me at least) using strong uniques because of the possibility of a retroactive nerf, since we never know if said unique will get hit or if it will receive 'legacy' status.
Missing the point completely. Why was Silverbranch changed (nerfed)? Because it was deemed too strong by the balance team. Fine, that isn't a problem, I don't think anyone disagrees that the amount of leveling power Silverbranch gives in the early parts of the game is very great, if not too great. So why are the OP "legacy" versions allowed to remain in their overpowered state? It makes no sense, and sets a terrible precedent.
It makes perfect sense as the leveling power boost doesn't matter outside of races and thus it doesn't matter if the ones allready in default or HC leagues stay the way they are.
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guidoo написал:
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Chris написал:
This discourages (me at least) using strong uniques because of the possibility of a retroactive nerf, since we never know if said unique will get hit or if it will receive 'legacy' status.
Based on this it's quite simple, if the unique has some very special mechanic that could be changed then all versions change if that mechanic is touched otherwise it's save.
"An it harm none, do what you will"
Последняя редакция: Torguemada#3020. Время: 5 апр. 2013 г., 23:32:54
It makes perfect sense as the leveling power boost doesn't matter outside of races and thus it doesn't matter if the ones allready in default or HC leagues stay the way they are.
It doesn't matter inside of races either. It should be pretty obvious to be honest.
The amount of work required to fix the Silverbranches would be better spent on improving any other part of the game, especially considering there are many other types of changes we may have to make in the future that put items into a state that isn't consistent with how they'll spawn if a new one is found.
But if you figured out a way to fix the issue then it would be usable on those "other types of changes we may have to make in the future". Otherwise this is going to continue building up an ever increasing backlog of legacy item complaints. Frankly, I don't think there are other things worth spending time on fixing except de-syncs.
The amount of work required to fix the Silverbranches would be better spent on improving any other part of the game, especially considering there are many other types of changes we may have to make in the future that put items into a state that isn't consistent with how they'll spawn if a new one is found.
But if you figured out a way to fix the issue then it would be usable on those "other types of changes we may have to make in the future".
Did you even read the technical explonation on how it all work that where give, there's no figuring out to do, they know a way to "fix" it, it just takes a lot of work and it will take just as much work every time(witch likely means it will be only done if some change is deemed absolutely vital).
