'Legacy' items policy, re:patch 0.10.5

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KarraKurri написал:

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The mod's range was only checked when the stat was rolled, so they load with the "2" value they were stored with.

Cant you force game to check this values AGAIN on login or smth? Even one forced check in a patch day and boom! all silverbranches are +1. Not each time you login but one time always when unique is changed.

Not possible?

It is indeed possible, as well as your other suggestion. This is exactly the solution that is time consuming and requires resources from GGG. They can do it, but the benefit and priorities is not there.

And before anyone think such a simple solution is simple. It is not in the world of software development. You need to design it, you need to implement it, you need to test it. And in the case of a procedure that affects live player's item in an economy they promise not to wipe, tests have to be extensive. And then you deploy it and hope you didn't fuck it up.

I also wanted to take the time to voice my feedback in opposition to 'legacy;' items - especially in the default league. There have been plenty of well-stated arguments, and I have nothing further to add.

I'm just chiming in to say I really don't care for Legacy items either. Not that it *really* matters if there are +2 Silverbranches floating around, but frankly, why the change at all? I didn't realize that uniques dropped constantly during races - oh wait, they don't. So someone finds it and gains advantage? Guess what, if I find three Chaos Orbs and an Alchemy before Brutus, I've gained an advantage, too. Better change the mechanics! Even if it is stronger than normal for its level, it isn't something that anyone can rely on to gain any sort of advantage.

Furthermore, this hyper sensitivity to balance on the part of the developers is the entire reason there are a ton of us here protesting Legacy items. Every time there is a patch something is getting nerfed or buffed to achieve greater balance - leaving Legacy items (whether it is a lot of work or not) just flies in the face of this meticulous balancing act I see going on.

I'll stop there for fear that I just keep repeating myself into Oblivion.

TL;DR version: As some others here so eloquently put, if it is such a big deal that you HAVE to change the unique at all, then you need to change them all. Simple as that.

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Torguemada написал:

Did you even read the technical explonation on how it all work that where give, there's no figuring out to do, they know a way to "fix" it, it just takes a lot of work and it will take just as much work every time(witch likely means it will be only done if some change is deemed absolutely vital).

Which brings us back to the problem of inconsistency. It can be done, but they won't do it unless they think it has to be done. Either do it in every case or don't.


Pretty much everything he said.

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ggnorekthx написал:

I'm just chiming in to say I really don't care for Legacy items either. Not that it *really* matters if there are +2 Silverbranches floating around, but frankly, why the change at all? I didn't realize that uniques dropped constantly during races - oh wait, they don't. So someone finds it and gains advantage? Guess what, if I find three Chaos Orbs and an Alchemy before Brutus, I've gained an advantage, too. Better change the mechanics! Even if it is stronger than normal for its level, it isn't something that anyone can rely on to gain any sort of advantage.

Furthermore, this hyper sensitivity to balance on the part of the developers is the entire reason there are a ton of us here protesting Legacy items. Every time there is a patch something is getting nerfed or buffed to achieve greater balance - leaving Legacy items (whether it is a lot of work or not) just flies in the face of this meticulous balancing act I see going on.

I'll stop there for fear that I just keep repeating myself into Oblivion.

TL;DR version: As some others here so eloquently put, if it is such a big deal that you HAVE to change the unique at all, then you need to change them all. Simple as that.

This...Please, GGG, reconsider this 'screw balance, it's too much work' attitude, it leads to hell. Or someplace else.

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wiggin написал:

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ggnorekthx написал:

I'm just chiming in to say I really don't care for Legacy items either. Not that it *really* matters if there are +2 Silverbranches floating around, but frankly, why the change at all? I didn't realize that uniques dropped constantly during races - oh wait, they don't. So someone finds it and gains advantage? Guess what, if I find three Chaos Orbs and an Alchemy before Brutus, I've gained an advantage, too. Better change the mechanics! Even if it is stronger than normal for its level, it isn't something that anyone can rely on to gain any sort of advantage.

Furthermore, this hyper sensitivity to balance on the part of the developers is the entire reason there are a ton of us here protesting Legacy items. Every time there is a patch something is getting nerfed or buffed to achieve greater balance - leaving Legacy items (whether it is a lot of work or not) just flies in the face of this meticulous balancing act I see going on.

I'll stop there for fear that I just keep repeating myself into Oblivion.

TL;DR version: As some others here so eloquently put, if it is such a big deal that you HAVE to change the unique at all, then you need to change them all. Simple as that.

This...Please, GGG, reconsider this 'screw balance, it's too much work' attitude, it leads to hell. Or someplace else.

+100500

whoa, bro. Whoa.

At first I was like, oh god, no, not legacy items, that could like, make for some crappy, high end insanely valuable crap that is extremely limited forever.

Then, someone linked silverbranch, and I realized why I wasn't familiar with it.

Level 1 bow? Fer reals? Lets all unbunch our collective panties, and save ALL of this energy for when it matters, like if lioneyes got nerfed, or kaoms got nerfed, but they left in the old. That could create some real disparity and awful issues with oldschool gods vs people who couldn't afford it once and now will never afford it.

I don't think GGG could do that, though. They have brains, regardless of whether or not they have an economist on staff, they can figure out very easily:

Nerf kaoms: add two sockets, subtract 500 HP from bonus, or something. it makes PVP too lols, whatever the balance justification, OK.

Leave in the old kaoms.

Suddenly, there would be, what, 300 or so total, on the server?

OK. Now, they already cost more than a regular person could farm in a month. I mean, ouch. That sucks. I like the lucky roll on elite shit, I have myself a near perfect carnage heart I only re-rolled once, and blessed twice, so, hey, that can be kind of cool.

But when they take that disparity and remove the chance for it to EVER DROP AGAIN, that will set the price at astoundingly, stupidly high.

And I think even GGG recognizes that's discouraging and insanely unfair.

So, you know. Tweaking stuff and leaving alone the old ones? Cool flavor. it's level 1 gear. No worries.

Let's save the panic for when they do this to end-game gear.

If it's not worth the effort to correct existing items, then why are you changing the item? Just leave it alone if it's not worth the developer time to adjust properly.

You should really consider building better tools to handle this sort of thing before moving forward with any further item rebalancing. This is a huge issue that threatens the longevity of the game and the integrity of the economy. It doesn't seem like it should be that prohibitively difficult to write a script that finds all 'Silverbranch' items and adjusts their stats.

What happens if you let something slip through that isn't just a little overpowered/underpowered, but utterly broken? You just can't fix it... Or it takes a huge amount of developer time away from everything else to fix and the economy continues to suffer the consequences until it can be resolved? This could be an even bigger problem down the road. Now is the time to write the tools necessary so that your decision-making on important issues like this is not constrained by solvable technical problems.

So these "legacy" silverbranchs will be patched later when you have the time?

I am yet another person who feels strongly about not having legacy items like this. Legacy items are bad for the future of the game and they put newer players off.


Also on a side-point why on earth are there still tangible race rewards given the existence of maphacks????