'Legacy' items policy, re:patch 0.10.5

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Kyr205 написал:

Recap:

For:
You can trade for it.
Legacy items help with part of the mystique of the game.
It's more like D2, so it's fine to me.
Low level item legacies don't bother anyone other than people who care about the principle of legacy items.

Against:
I wasn't lucky enough. (you can trade for it)
I don't care about the mystique, I wasn't lucky enough to get one. (you can trade for it)
This should affect everyone, not just those who couldn't get on pre-nerf. (No retort, this makes sense.)
This makes the game more like D3. I don't like it.
I'll quit if this stays. (someone take your lollipop?)

If it isn't that big of a problem, then why nerf it in the first place? And if you judge how good a game is by seeing how similar it is to D2, just play D2. There is no game more like D2 than D2 lol.

WTS

10exalts EACH :)

Sorry, but you forgot about the player aspect. people don't play D2 as much, therefore, the game holds much lesser value in respect to current or up and coming games. To state that people should just go play D2 is just a lack of insight towards why people don't do it anymore...

Maybe they wanted to nerf it to see how many people would be butt hurt?
Maybe they are TESTING what they can and can't do... watching as the community screams at them for no reason about small changes... which would be the same reason as above...
Maybe... JUST MAYBE... They don't hold as high a regard to keeping a conformity on a 'cut-throat' game as so many people (the ones complaining) do.

They might just have a different vision than what the casuals have :P

Actually, how much does a legacy +2 sell :) ? I realised I have one too. Maybe this is my chance at immense riches :P

I think you can't win this either way. We saw what happened because of retroactive gear rebalancing in d3. We know what will happen with legacy items from d2 and closed beta. This game kind of accomodates the issue, more or less, by leaving the catch-call "default" league as kind of a garbage collector that doesn't matter from a laddering perspective.

Let em have legacy gear, for all I care. Just keep the league seasons rolling.

Hardcore is kind of immune to this problem (or rather, it's a self correcting problem in hc)

Can't win either way.

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AchillesX написал:

WTS

10exalts EACH :)

Perfect Roll 5 Socket, 12ex Pure 15Equiv! ;-)

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Kyr205 написал:

Sorry, but you forgot about the player aspect. people don't play D2 as much, therefore, the game holds much lesser value in respect to current or up and coming games. To state that people should just go play D2 is just a lack of insight towards why people don't do it anymore...

Maybe they wanted to nerf it to see how many people would be butt hurt?
Maybe they are TESTING what they can and can't do... watching as the community screams at them for no reason about small changes... which would be the same reason as above...
Maybe... JUST MAYBE... They don't hold as high a regard to keeping a conformity on a 'cut-throat' game as so many people (the ones complaining) do.

They might just have a different vision than what the casuals have :P

The basis of your argument is that D2 is the perfect game, and every aspect of that game is perfect and cannot be improved on. So when you say, D2 has X system, that means X system is right. That is incorrect thinking.

Exactly. Silverbranch isn't that strong past ~30ish, maybe a bit higher. There are definitely better weapons later in the game. But what if one of the strong late game items was changed instead? If Dream Fragments changed from Cannot be Frozen to 50% chance to avoid being frozen, would that be fair? If Lion's Eye gets changed to where it cannot crit, will that be fair? I fail to see how saying X item is a bit too strong, and from now on X item will be nerfed, but everyone that has X item before the patch can keep it has anything to do with what you are saying.

Easy solution. Every time there is a change that people cry about not being 'fair', we should have a ladder reset. Yay! Everyone is back to square one, and everyone starts off from an equal playing field.

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Kyr205 написал:

Recap:

For:
You can trade for it.
Legacy items help with part of the mystique of the game.
It's more like D2, so it's fine to me.
Low level item legacies don't bother anyone other than people who care about the principle of legacy items.

Against:
I wasn't lucky enough. (you can trade for it)
I don't care about the mystique, I wasn't lucky enough to get one. (you can trade for it)
This should affect everyone, not just those who couldn't get on pre-nerf. (No retort, this makes sense.)
This makes the game more like D3. I don't like it.
I'll quit if this stays. (someone take your lollipop?)

Yeah, if you're going to "recap" the arguments, at least make sure you actually recap the arguments. The overwhelming consensus here is that Legacy items are not something we want. There have been quite a few great posts explaining the reasoning for it - far more with reasoned arguments than "it isn't fair I didn't find one!"

Basically, if the item is that big of a problem that going forward all of the new ones will be definitively worse or better, that change should affect all of the currently spawned ones as well. If they nerf the damage on Firestorm by 30% they aren't going to leave all of the old gems in the game untouched because it is complete buffoonery and a terrible way to run the game - doing so with items is the exact same thing and I don't understand how people can't see this. I think the major argument FOR Legacy items right now is hinged on the circumstances - that the Silverbranch isn't spectacular and this change doesn't affect the end-game or the economy a whole lot. We are protesting not this circumstance in particular, but the entire idea of legacy items.

Either change the item, or don't. But keep it consistent please.

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Cailieg написал:

And most people clamour for Quillrain, Silverbranch is okay but it really only made PA OP in low levels negating in races the changes to low level PA dmg.

And since when is it ok for races to influence game altering changes to normal play?

This is a great, big clanger that GGG have just dropped.
1. They are allowing races to impact negatively on normal play.
2. They are creating legacy items because they are too lazy to do the job properly.

I have no interest in races, but for those that do, at the very least, game changes that are made because of races should only apply under race conditions and not effect normal play. Don't like Silverbranch in races, then just don't let it drop.

GGG can easily alter Silverbranch retro-actively and should do this to avoid legacy items, which are a blight on the game.

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