Soul Taker needs a nerf

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iamstryker написал:

It was really only a guess. I only did it out of frustration with seeing the same accusation flung at my side of the issue over and over again. I don't really think that everyone defending soul taker has one of them. Although I do think having one is motivation to defend it more than one would have.

Same, i do think NOT having one is one of the motivation to promotes nerfing than one do have one.

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iamstryker написал:

I don't think rarity is a real downside. Of course not everyone has one but what does everyone want? What does nearly every one handed axe (physical build) user want? I'm willing to bet they aren't thinking about a perfectly rolled rare, they are looking at ONE unique. Yawn.

You are betting again, and try to be the advocate for these player. You are not them, so please do not assume you can advocate their view or game experiences. And what is wrong with player wanting the best equipment/gears in the game, people need motivation to grind gears.

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iamstryker написал:

I don't really want to argue this point. I know some axes are better in certain ways, it won't change my opinion about soul taker.

Ok. you admit some axes are better than soul taker in certain ways, so what stops player to having these axes rather than soul taker? huh? Not like what just said, everyone wants one? You arguement points dont stack up.

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iamstryker написал:

Rares are meant to be boring stat sticks. Uniques shouldn't be. Also there is still more variety on a chest. If someone tells you that you have a 6L chest you still don't know whats on it. You don't know whether its pure ES, Armor, or EV or a mix. You don't know what other mods it has or what the values are. With uniques everyone gets the same mods with the same bracket of values.

We are playing path of exile here, not path of guessing your gears here. Guessing how much es you have on your chest is not a part of the game, how many ppl really care about how much es you got on your chest?

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iamstryker написал:

Did you really think that I thought everyone had one or maybe was I just trying to make a point? Ya not everyone has one but everyone would WANT one, and in the standard league, which I prefer to play at the moment, eventually Soul Taker will saturate the market and any player that sticks around long enough will get one. It won't stay at 1% forever.

Same, if you play long enough, everyone will have 6L chest with max life max tri res, whats that different from having a soul taker? So nerf 6L chest, now!!
BTW, if you stick around long enough, there will be more OP uniques coming out, by that time, maybe no one wants a soul taker. the devs need to keep player interested, this is part of the business. Also, if you play that long, you deserve a OP unique.

So long as the game isn't being balanced around uniques and their benefits then it's no big deal.

When balancing is done with uniques put into the equation it becomes a problem.

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InsiderTrader написал:

You are betting again, and try to be the advocate for these player. You are not them, so please do not assume you can advocate their view or game experiences. And what is wrong with player wanting the best equipment/gears in the game, people need motivation to grind gears.

What do you mean I am not them? I am one of them, I'm sure I will make an axe user in the future and what axe do you think would make my build far more powerful thats in ready supply being past around as a trophy? I already answered your second point please don't make me repeat myself, just go reread all of our exchanges and you will have your answer.

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Ok. you admit some axes are better than soul taker in certain ways, so what stops player to having these axes rather than soul taker? huh? Not like what just said, everyone wants one? You arguement points dont stack up.

Your disecting my words a little too much. Ya I have said NEARLY everyone when I am being more specific. I say EVERYONE when I am trying to make a simple point that too many players are after one unique axe which I think makes the game boring. I think you know what I meant, no need to try to find inconsistencies when there really isn't any. I have always admitted that a few axes might be better in certain ways, that doesn't stop the majority from just slapping on Soul Taker and being happy with its damage plus its unique bonueses.

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We are playing path of exile here, not path of guessing your gears here. Guessing how much es you have on your chest is not a part of the game, how many ppl really care about how much es you got on your chest?

Thats not what I was saying. My basic point was that having a Soul Taker means the same thing to everyone using it. 6L's vary greatly depending on the mods and the build the person is going for. Thats a big difference.

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Same, if you play long enough, everyone will have 6L chest with max life max tri res, whats that different from having a soul taker? So nerf 6L chest, now!!

I've already responded to this point please stop using it. I don't care about rares. They have different mods and are not meant to have the same purpose as a unique.

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BTW, if you stick around long enough, there will be more OP uniques coming out, by that time, maybe no one wants a soul taker. the devs need to keep player interested, this is part of the business. Also, if you play that long, you deserve a OP unique.

I sure hope there won't be more OP uniques coming out, it would be really sad to see this game go the route of D3. May as well kick rares out of the game because they will just mean less and less. What your saying also makes the game sound like its going to suffer from severe power creep.

If you need an OP unique to stay interested in the game then you are far different than I am. We can just respectfully disagree and move on.

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iamstryker написал:

What do you mean I am not them? I am one of them, I'm sure I will make an axe user in the future and what axe do you think would make my build far more powerful thats in ready supply being past around as a trophy? I already answered your second point please don't make me repeat myself, just go reread all of our exchanges and you will have your answer.

Even you are one of the player, I think you still need to understand, your idea =\= other people's idea, and you think soul taker should be nerfed =\= soul taker actually should be nerfed.

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iamstryker написал:

Your disecting my words a little to much. Ya I have said NEARLY everyone when I am being more specific. I say EVERYONE when I am trying to make a simple point that too many players are after one unique axe which I think makes the game boring. I think you know what I meant, no need to try to find inconsistencies when there really isn't any. I have always admitted that a few axes might be better in certain ways, that doesn't stop the majority from just slapping on Soul Taker and being happy with its damage plus its unique bonueses.

As you have agreed, there are better axes out there, nothing stops player to craft/ find the better one, until they find one, nothing wrong with them to obtain the best they can find. plus, there are not many sould taker on sale on the market. at this point of time, anarchy has less than 5 soul taker for sale.

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iamstryker написал:

Thats not what I was saying. My basic point was that having a Soul Taker means the same thing to everyone using it. 6L's vary greatly depending on the mods and the build the person is going for. Thats a big difference.

Eeveryone wants a soul taker, everyone wants a 6L chest with max life/es and tri res roll. Anything difference between these 2?

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iamstryker написал:

I sure hope there won't be more OP uniques coming out, it would be really sad to see this game go the route of D3. May as well kick rares out of the game because they will just mean less and less. What your saying also makes the game sound like its going to suffer from severe power creep.

If you need an OP unique to stay interested in the game then you are far different than I am. We can just respectfully disagree and move on.

unfortunately, there will be more items coming out, and some of them will be OP, people need the motivation to grind the OP items, Game is an entertaining business, and GGG need to people stay in this game to survive, to keep their company running. And what's keep player in the game? the HOPE of one day they can find the top notch gears.

Everyone is different, if you dont like soul taker, just dont use it, vendor it when you find one. simply.

Off work, we can continue our discussion tomorrow.

cheers,

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InsiderTrader написал:

Eeveryone wants a soul taker, everyone wants a 6L chest with max life/es and tri res roll. Anything difference between these 2?

Yes there is, and I have already gone over this. Please don't repeat the same crap.

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people need the motivation to grind the OP items,

I disagree.

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And what's keep player in the game? the HOPE of one day they can find the top notch gears.

Not at all. If thats the game I wanted I would simply go grind D3 all day. I stay in PoE because I like making my own builds and theory crafting.

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Everyone is different, if you dont like soul taker, just dont use it, vendor it when you find one. simply.

Ignoring something that I think is a problem for the game is not a solution.

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reboticon написал:

Still don't understand Why it matters. Who cares if someone else has a really good toy? There is no competitiveness to the ladders in the game. Map drops are RNG,and a huge percentage at the top pretty blatantly use d2jsp or RMT.

But, you know, let's nerf this axe, because That's the thing breaking the game.

GGG needs to fix the whole game on all fronts to reach the mythical balance. While bow-users may have liked to have almost all their market dominated by lioneyes, cleavers and other 1-hand axe users may not want to.

The Soul Taker is overtuned, lower its max dps to 300 from the current 364 and it is suddenly far better off balancewise:

If you are using 4 mana nodes normally on cleave, the axe would be like 330 rare axe (given 2.5% "more" dps per node), which is strong but certainly overcomable by a fair amount top-end rare axes.

If you use far more mana nodes or even god forbid use blood magic without it, then that 300 dps is like 390 dps (given that 1 link gives 30% more dps), which is on par with the currently best 1-hand axe on poe.xyz.is standard.
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Currently the 364 dps soul taker is like 400 dps rare axe for cleavers (i.e. better than any rare axe on poe.xyz.is) and 473.2 dps on builds that would otherwise have used blood magic (LOLOL, good luck ever finding a such rare for sale, if it even exists).

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InsiderTrader написал:

Check his axe again, his axe has 4% life leech, and this is something soul taker doesnt have, and it mean A LOT to a lot builds.

Lol. You should run 75% chaos resist at endgame and use blood rage for % life leech and 3 frenzy chargets. Life leech is not an issue.

Even if you don't run blood rage, you just need 25k pdps post-mitigation to achieve max life leech ratio with 4k hp and 2% life leech. That is easily as hell achievable if you are hitting 2 targets or more. (2% life leech easy peazy to get on a ring or neck)

As for that axe: it has shitty pdps, so assuming you are a cleaver and use 350 pdps soul taker on 1 hand and use that shitty one on your other hand, using 2 soul takers would have left you with about 8% more dps, which is about 3 damage nodes. 3 nodes vs 4% life leech knowing the other options to get life leech, hmmmmm.

Keep also in mind that 1-hand + shield builds are extremely viable in endgame and for those there is only 1 axe needed.

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ScrotieMcB написал:

If it was " Melee skills socketed in this item can't fail based on cost," would that be better?

I think my suggestion to lower the pdps to max 300 is far better. That way it would be extremely useful for builds that would normally have used blood magic, since the extra free link makes the 300 pdps soul taker makes it on par with about 390 pdps axe which is extremely hard to find for sale.

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MrSmiley21 написал:

Soul taker is a very rare and expensive item, not something the average player is just going to stumble across unless they're very lucky. There will always be more demand for this item than there are people who can afford one.

My problem isn't with the better uniques, but with the crummy/useless ones. A lot of the higher level unique items are garbage. Like Chin Sol, Darkscorn, Infractem. Those are utter garbage. Chin Sol is probably the best of the worst on that list, but who the hell makes an archer to face tank? I wish there were more Soul takers, Lioneye, Kaom's heart, and Shavvrones in the game. And less uniques like the ones I listed.

Wait for the next new uniques :

Godly 2H AXE yay ( or not, let's wait )

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mazul написал:

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reboticon написал:

Still don't understand Why it matters. Who cares if someone else has a really good toy? There is no competitiveness to the ladders in the game. Map drops are RNG,and a huge percentage at the top pretty blatantly use d2jsp or RMT.

But, you know, let's nerf this axe, because That's the thing breaking the game.

GGG needs to fix the whole game on all fronts to reach the mythical balance. While bow-users may have liked to have almost all their market dominated by lioneyes, cleavers and other 1-hand axe users may not want to.

The Soul Taker is overtuned, lower its max dps to 300 from the current 364 and it is suddenly far better off balancewise:

If you are using 4 mana nodes normally on cleave, the axe would be like 330 rare axe (given 2.5% "more" dps per node), which is strong but certainly overcomable by a fair amount top-end rare axes.

If you use far more mana nodes or even god forbid use blood magic without it, then that 300 dps is like 390 dps (given that 1 link gives 30% more dps), which is on par with the currently best 1-hand axe on poe.xyz.is standard.
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Currently the 364 dps soul taker is like 400 dps rare axe for cleavers (i.e. better than any rare axe on poe.xyz.is) and 473.2 dps on builds that would otherwise have used blood magic (LOLOL, good luck ever finding a such rare for sale, if it even exists).

FInally!!

Someone who understands!