Marauder Start Area Feedback

Please GGG, make buffs, NOT NERF new Marauder area!
UPD: sry for my grammar! add new feedback and try to make readable. Sorry for my eng :)

- "Buff Duration" node - just bad: very low % at them (as little influence on that) and not popular almost no one (because that-really small (negligible) effect on them and 10-15% - NOTHING), to alter them as Inner Force or rework that they affect the charges and other skills that do not affect right now or leave the same effect BUT make them 50% each.

- "Totems Life" node need increase, a lot more. They weak for now. And special Decoy Totem need HUGE buffs as per % Quality, and per lvl, + base life.

- "Elemental Adaptation" need buff or more nodes with same effect or increase max res. As was said before, we still wait, when you said will be added more max res nodes.

- "Enemy crit Strike Multi Reduction" rly nice and great node! We need more like them, add 4-6 or more nodes with same effect.

- "Block chance with Staves" very low nodes and even with all nodes its still poor and dont comparable to other weapon node, they broke (rly low % and they dont give armour/life/accur as other weapon node have) Staves node must be buffed and new Block with staves must be added. Buff every and all Staves node! Special effect for staves - "block chance with Staves" must be increase.

- "Flask Life" nodes rework, or a lot buffs, they must recovery 35%+ from flasks.

- "Resolute Technique" can be better. 1 critical hit = 7-10 hits, even if you 1 time miss you next your critical hit will outdmg any Resolute Technique... thats why many (TONS) build with crits and Marauders MUST take RT of lack crit chance/multi + accur + dex node near mara tree, so RT can do x2-x3 more DMG than normal hit, but thats disscuion. In my opinion RT must do more dmg, not only 100% chance to hit.

- "Armour" node - very little really good nodes on the armour, most nodes junk (10% - nothing, just waste your important node) They must have bonuses: +life +%life with armour. And more bonuses can added - for example 10 elemental resisntances.

- More big armour nodes. There only 2 fine big node at Marauder area and they can be buffed. There must be more build friendly bug armour node.

- "Master of Arena" must be not 1 in duelist should not only be in Duelist area, but Marauder do the same node. Its must have and great for Marauder!

- "Auras and Reduced Mana Resisrvation" they are very far and difficult for Marauder, and very small (almost negligible) percentage (%) next to Marauder area. They should be closer and give a lot more interest (and % reserve and % increase effect of aura) than it is now! Just need to add more new nodes next to Marauder area. We need more aura node.

- "Testudo" node - more like this node for shields (more block chance or defences). Need more big and cool defensive shields node. Much more. Perfect if they would have +life with block. New block + defences + life hybrid nodes.

- Chaos resistances node - they need to be added near mara. Similiar as "Purity Of Flesh"! Would be great to see more Purity Of Flesh node.

- Add more similiar as Path Of The Warrior node! They are great.
Must be more % Increased Physical Damage node! Please add them. There more and more new uniques and more new builds that request more new % Increased Physical Damage node.

- Theres no BIG "% Increased Melee Physical Damage" node, they must be near Marauder area with big % and, for example, base life or 30 strenght.

Maybe new 2-4 BIG Life Leech/Mana Leech node near Marauder area, would be geat to see!

"Inc area dmg/radius aoe" node must added for ground slam must be mara more main + for new splash gem for fine aoe.

Buff small %life node! And add to them small buff/effect like Movement Speed or Armour or dex or srt or base life. Hybrid.

And ofc new node Life Regeneration big 1,5% or even 2,5%! Must be near Marauder.
More Life + %Life.
More Life + more survs i wish would be in new Marauder area!

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!!!

PS: Please buff and NOT NERF! Please.

Hi Qarl.
I recently did a blood magic aster Marauder (Antediluvian), using the heavily buffed incinerate, in nemesis.

Killing things was painfully slow, but with the life leech support gem and with a huge focus on tanking, I was able to progress without dying.

http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAAAgEAAecCcQSzFCAUTRRxGS4aOCSLJ-0pTzrYPQ9BqkTnTdhQR1BQVElXDVhjXz9qHndifLuBb4KbhGOMdozPkFWePJ7Nn8uiAKcwp4SoGLndxBXE9sbY0iHZYd-_51LsOO8O8B_yL_Pd9kj7qg==

This is where I died, at this part of my build.

I died to a rare bear in A2 waterfall cave. It had "corrupted blood" and even with two instant recovery flasks, I lost my 2.25k~ health so quickly I literally could not do anything but die. I was also using a shield, with 30% estimated damage reduction from armor (granted, against a bear it's probably no better than 10%).

Interpret that how you will, but I want to point you at the fire damage cast nodes in the Marauder area.

First of all, in general, 6% damage increases aren't sufficient for any fire spell. I was planning to get them, but only at 80+ when I have nothing better to buy. Stacking life is still the best means of playing Marauder, especially a caster Marauder.

Secondly, Blood Magic really allows the Marauder to be an excellent caster. Stacking life regen and using life leech on your spells basically results in free casting, with extra flask slots for buffing or instant healing.

But to be perfectly honest, in combination with the fact elemental resistances can get so crazy high on monsters and the fact the Marauder has no real methods of increasing fire damage (even by trekking into Scion or Templar territory, does he have little access to anything substantive), it's a rather dull and boring build.

I really love the whole concept of blood magic - and using it for magic, not for spamming ground slam all day long. If you could consider improving the fire cluster to be more interesting and appealing, that would be appreciated.

Burn Duration: For casters, this is only useful for fireball or molten shell builds, because burn damage is totally nonexistant for flame totem, searing totem, firestorm.
6% to 18% Increases in Damage: Damage is always great n' all, but it's not significant, not when getting more defenses means I can spam spells better in the long-run anyway. These nodes don't really let the Marauder stand out from the Templar or the Witch either, as they too just get 6% damage increases for fire damage.

There are no interesting mechanics for a Marauder-mage to take advantage of, early game or end game, besides the synergy of blood magic with life regeneration. There are some crit multiplier nodes around too, but that's really all the Marauder offers in this area. It does not help the Marauder does not get access to any support gems besides Iron Will and Reduced Mana that lend him to casting.

I know the Marauder is not supposed to be a caster, but there are interesting things every class can do when they break the mold. Ranger-mages have lots of crit multiplier, trap and DoT passives to work with. Shadows can use weapons and spells without much restriction. Witches with melee weapons are interesting with EB, daggers, staves, critical multiplier, double curse, and minions (think dominating blow). Templars are pretty unrestricted in how they use melee weapons. Duelist-mages have Mind Over Matter and access to lots of reduced mana cost nodes, though they probably occupy a similar area as Marauders - they don't have any real viable spell builds available to them.

But the Marauder to me is a lot like a Shaman. Since totems have been nerfed a lot in the past, he doesn't make a totemic mage that appealing, especially support - getting that second and third totem is pretty costly to any direct damage he deals, there aren't any cluters that say, "Oh sure Marauder dude, you can focus entirely on melee weapons but still use flame or searing totems to support you!" Yeah, there are totem nodes to pick up, but when are you ever going to get them when you're so preoccupied stacking health, resistances and two-handed damage? The totem nodes don't let you tank or deal damage any better or any differently than if you had simply min/maxed your life/resists and sprinkled some two-handed nodes.

In general, I'd love it if there were some small tantalizing clusters that made players break the mold more often.

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anubite написал:

Shadows can use weapons and spells without much restriction.

Shadows are actually god awful when it comes to anything that isn't Daggers!. As much as the Marauder is the Maces! guy, the Shadow is the Daggers! guy. Good or bad, that's some kind of differentiation between classes in a game where everything tends to feel like identical soup.

The arsonist cluster should probably just get cut. There's already 2 classes with Fire%, and considering the amount of mindshare it's gotten in this thread, means it's pretty much not in the game anyway.

I don't know what you're talking about, Shadows can use bows, daggers, claws, and one-handed swords with ease. Of course, they can even use two-handed weapons, especially staves, and other one-handed weapons... perhaps not as easily because of the strength requirement, but LS Shadow with a staff, in theory, is a great build (grab those projectile damage nodes!) - it's only limited by how difficult it is to get good staves. Don't make silly statements when +30% lightning damage is sitting right next to the class start, with other great nodes for ALL weapon-users like mana leech, aura cost reduction, and Ghost Reaver.

Even when building a dagger shadow, the dagger clusters are a premium. You don't really get to use them, because you need to stack life and resistances.

Cutting arsonist would be antithetical to the whole "colors" statement made by Qarl - that some classes may want to "dabble" in things outside their specialization. Arsonist is a single cluster, the only real magic cluster in a bastion of attack and defensive based clusters. All it needs is a little tweaking I'd say.

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but LS Shadow with a staff, in theory, is a great build

Templar outclasses it in every way aside from the cost of taking Chaos Inoculation. Not only is his projectile damage with it much higher, but it'll apply to melee as well.

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anubite написал:

I don't know what you're talking about

I'm talking about how damage and/or survivability are lost if you choose to go into shadow, if you're not energy shield and daggers. Claws are passable, but just just.

This is due to the fundamental design of the area. It was meant for damage% to be "expensive" for a shadow to acquire, and it's scant on life%. And what two things does every character care about? Damage and life (or energy shield).

The critical chance% is nothing exceptional all on its own - Bloodthirst, 60%, hell ya. Costs three points. That's the same as 20% per point. Scantly better than 15% nodes.

Let's talk mana regeneration. If you want to cast spells from mana, you have to take Clarity or Eldritch Battery. Or sacrifice a support for mana leech and deal 75% as much damage as you could have. This means the only mana stat that matters is % regeneration, the bulk of its benefit being enhancing Clarity. Templar is comparable spell crit, better damage%, and higher mana regen%.

Bows? Waste of skill points. There's not even an efficient bridge from Projectile% to Assassination, which is the very least I'd ask of the man. The ranger is like how the shadow is with daggers - a perfectly self-contained bundle of efficient stats. And flat projectile elemental damage is better as Scion.

The dagger stats are exceptional. Dagger Damage and Critical Chance: 6% damage, 30% crit. That's 2.5 skills points worth of power. And it's just a basic node; compare it to Fencing which is just valued at 2 skill points. Nightstalker is 7.5. And there's four clusters like that. This boost in power more than makes up for the scant life% and the little extra tax you have to pay to unlock these clusters. It isn't theorycraft; Lightning Strike Shadow is best with daggers. And the entire area would like you to use Chaos Inoculation and Daggers very much.

Which is a long way of getting to my point, that a good backbone is a lot like the game Go. You have to unlock a sequence of stuff that works together to be worthwhile; in short, a steady stream of life/energyshield% near damage enhancement. Arsonist lacks infrastructure around it to support it. Which would be space better spent on axes or extra gore%.

Just a niche stat for Oro's Sacrifice.

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Of course, they can even use two-handed weapons

Oh. You were joking. Sorry about the wall of text up there.

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LimitedRooster написал:

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anubite написал:

Shadows can use weapons and spells without much restriction.

Shadows are actually god awful when it comes to anything that isn't Daggers!. As much as the Marauder is the Maces! guy, the Shadow is the Daggers! guy. Good or bad, that's some kind of differentiation between classes in a game where everything tends to feel like identical soup.

The arsonist cluster should probably just get cut. There's already 2 classes with Fire%, and considering the amount of mindshare it's gotten in this thread, means it's pretty much not in the game anyway.

Shadows can use claws as effective as daggers.

The problem is - no weapon has as effective and powerful DPS nodes clustered together as daggers have. Claws have life leech nodes, but their DPS nodes arent so amazing. As for staffs, they got not really useful 10% block node, knockback on crit node and Serpent Stance cluster, not even comparable with power to daggers or claws.
Swords have bulks of free accuracy, but most swordsmen go RT anyway...
Most Sword, Mace and Axe nodes (without life) are skipped in favour of gaining life. Why? Because they arent gamebreaking - they are just a small damage boost.
Dagger and Claw nodes ARE game-breaking. Without them, your daggers/claws are useless junk.

That's maybe true in the end game, but I've reached 48 with this build using DW daggers with spectral throw.

http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAAAgYABbUOSBGWFr8c3B4aIuokPCaVJ6koKjBUMHEyATgbOkJJUUt4TLFTNVVLWm1h4mKsbWxte3BSf8aH24w2kc-T_JlXmyabtZ2qpzSnXK7Pshm1SMBRxqLLgs3qzkjPetQj1p3dqOOE6NbrjvF28-r_kw==

Power Charge on Critical basically makes weapon specialization for Shadows moot - you should really only be getting them if you're at the end game with no better points to spend. Getting higher defenses is always better, even after all the buffs GGG has given to offensive specialization.

Daggers and claw clusters are definitely the best weapon clusters in the game, you're right about that. Getting Staff/Mace/Whatever nodes aren't nearly as build-vital and this is a problem across the board with the passive tree - I feel as though every weapon cluster needs to have its notable nodes grant something build-enabling; like a unique effect. Otherwise, it's better to take generic nodes and not lock yourself down to one weapon type, as you never know what may drop.

The +life% weapon nodes for the Shadow are also kind of interesting choices that are at least a little compelling, but you honestly need resistances more than life as a Shadow, because you don't get diamond skin, so you need to prioritize that over extra life. The only reason Marauders "work" as a class is because they naturally have high life and resistances, allowing them to stumble around looking for the right set-up, whereas most other classes need ot get their act together right away or they won't make it out of normal.

Blunt Trauma is actually really fantastic with Spectral Throw. Any melee monster of average movespeed can't touch you since the multiple hits enhances the knockback rate (and it certainly helps that stave base crit is above 5%), and it helps push monsters back into an area they're likely to get more hits from. The other knockback on crit nodes, Bullying and King of the Hill, are pretty weak in comparison.

Things have gotten better for almost everything across the board, though Talons of Murder does suffer from being expensive to get to (2 point nodes for twice the points isn't really a deal at all is it, neh?). Axes suffer a bit from that - I'd barely rate Headsman as a 1.2pt and Hatchet Master is in one of the last places I'd wanna be.

Don't get me wrong; 24% phys is still worth +500..1000 raw dps. Just.. going out of your way for a Cleaving type cluster for a measly extra +6% phys at the end of the rainbow feels cruddy when put up against the likes of Nightstalker, From The Shadows, Blademaster, Wicked Blade, Skull Cracking, etc.

"

That's maybe true in the end game, but I've reached 48 with this build using DW daggers with spectral throw.

This is just how I see things lately, but I think every evasion character should start as a Scion these days. A ball of over 80% life; just saves so many desperately needed points.

On the flipside, to a smaller degree I feel the same about Marauder backbones; getting access to Harrier.

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Getting higher defenses is always better

This isn't always true, as expanding a backbone devours points faster than anything else. After 30 to 40 points into vit, you can kick a couple toward farm speed.

Like so many things, having +100 life on every single piece of gear helps. Dat +2000 max life.

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anubite написал:

That's maybe true in the end game, but I've reached 48 with this build using DW daggers with spectral throw.

http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAAAgYABbUOSBGWFr8c3B4aIuokPCaVJ6koKjBUMHEyATgbOkJJUUt4TLFTNVVLWm1h4mKsbWxte3BSf8aH24w2kc-T_JlXmyabtZ2qpzSnXK7Pshm1SMBRxqLLgs3qzkjPetQj1p3dqOOE6NbrjvF28-r_kw==

Power Charge on Critical basically makes weapon specialization for Shadows moot - you should really only be getting them if you're at the end game with no better points to spend. Getting higher defenses is always better, even after all the buffs GGG has given to offensive specialization.

Daggers and claw clusters are definitely the best weapon clusters in the game, you're right about that. Getting Staff/Mace/Whatever nodes aren't nearly as build-vital and this is a problem across the board with the passive tree - I feel as though every weapon cluster needs to have its notable nodes grant something build-enabling; like a unique effect. Otherwise, it's better to take generic nodes and not lock yourself down to one weapon type, as you never know what may drop.

The +life% weapon nodes for the Shadow are also kind of interesting choices that are at least a little compelling, but you honestly need resistances more than life as a Shadow, because you don't get diamond skin, so you need to prioritize that over extra life. The only reason Marauders "work" as a class is because they naturally have high life and resistances, allowing them to stumble around looking for the right set-up, whereas most other classes need ot get their act together right away or they won't make it out of normal.

You are wrong abour resists here. At your level, getting max res may be a hard task, but in endgame, you can easily be capped and even overcapped (to manage Elemental Weakness) without any point invested into resistances. Your tree should give you want your gear cant give (or cant give you enough) - that's the main rule of viable build.

And i agree, most weapons dont have any amazing or gamebreaking nodes, like daggers (exceptional critical strikes + poison) and Claws (exceptional life leech) have. Well, maybe, maces have nice stun-dedicated nodes, but those are interesting only for stun-dadicated builds.

With regards to resists - they stifle what gear you can buy. I would rather use passive points on resistances than try to find perfect resist gear, especially when you consider it may be crucial to over-cap your resistances in Merciless, to deal with certain map mods and curses. It can also result in freeing up a ring slot or two, which may be handy for IIR farming.

The Marauder is considered strong because his starting passives are very monolithic - you've got two paths, weapons or health. Since none of his weapon nodes at the start are actually compelling (besides maybe that hybrid dex/int node and the first two +melee damage nodes) and because they don't really give you faster access to any more important nodes faster, they are often neglected.

If I were to address the Marauder start, I would break this monopoly by introducing build-enabling defensive weapon nodes at the start, as well as build-defining offensive nodes. The armor nodes are more compelling than in the past, but even they could be refined.

The Shadow is a good class to compare with. The shadow has four critical node areas - +critical strike, +elemental effect, +attack speed and +life. All four of these areas interact and pull on each other - fighters want attack speed, life, critical strike and maybe elemental effect. Mages want life, elemental effect, possibly projectile damage and traps. These desires will pull player builds in one direction or another, but there's some definition tension there.

Marauder players will go life if they know what they are doing, then spend two points on melee damage when they need the pick-me-up, but they will seldom waste their time on any of the other nodes around there. They might invest in armor later on, but I don't think anyone takes those nodes over all that life regeneration and max life - there's nothing notable or purposeful about those nodes other than their slightly higher efficiency and armor is always less defensive-enabling than life.

The Marauder start is also very "conduit-like" - where the Shadow life nodes invite you into the upper or lower spectrum of his starting area, there's nothing that "binds" both branches of the Marauder tree together. This is probably something Qarl will do, as it's something all the other classes share.