Marauder Start Area Feedback

Get rid of life on kill nodes for a start. Purity of essence is good but to have to take such useless nodes is a real kick to the balls.

Hi there,

First of all, excuse my english, it is not my native language.

I will try to give my point of view here and hope it will somehow help.

The marauder starting area is compose of 2 know "routes". We are used to call the life route and the damage route. Making a build involve in 99% of the time to take the life on the top til heart of the gladiator, or to take the damage route on the bottom to leave in direction of the duelist/scion or in direction of the damage node on the bottom.

The escape route (top and bottom) are really not attractive, you use 1 point less to reach the same place in the tree and you finish with bonus which are not to compare if you had to invest 1 point more to have damage or life. I would then reduce of at least 1 point the escape route giving the possibility for experiences player to leave the starting aera as fast as possible to let them build. The new player would be also not loosing too much point and will not ruin its character after only a few level.

The top route

I find the regen node of 0,4% a bit low actually. Even if I know that it is not too bad, for new player it looks likes a very bad node, especially if you compare to the duelist that have a direct 1% regen after 3 level. I would ajust the 0,4% regen node to make it more attractive.

The 2% increase movement speed in the armour mastery node is a joke in my opinion. Like a lot already said, it should have been, no armour penalty. If it is too strong, you can replace it then to make it harder to access. I would also add armor nodes or combine them in other nodes to give also more option for armour.

Like a lot of people I find the life flask node useless. I never took them in any of my build. I really liked since the update 1.0, that life node or chaos node have been fuse in other nodes. I think it is something that can be made for life flask, to fuse them in nearby nodes, I would also apply the bonus to all type of flask.
I would made the same comment for the critical strike reduction node. Here they are very gut, and I take them really offen, but it is more an end game node, and should be placed probably somewhere else or are to be added in other node directly (like chaos resistance in life node)

I really like the node Heart of the Gladiator, it is a good node and represent for me what the marauder has to be. A big fighter with a lot of life. I would move this node more centraly in the starting area, I would buff it (more life ?, adding also damage ?, giving extra resistance like chaos ? or adding a passive like elemental adaptation ?) and giving the possibility to reach it easily for the marauder even if you take the bottom route and hard to reach for other class. It could be a good bridge between the 2 routes too.

The elemental wheel resistance has to be somehow reworks. For 6 points you have +30% resistance. Under the scion, for 4 points, you have only 2% less, but you have bonus to armour too and still 2 skill points. As a starting player, it look like that the scion elemental resistance route looks really stronger than the marauder one.
It makes also no sense not to be able to continue the route after the lighning or the cold resistance route. We are also missing some chaos resistance node in this starting area, maybe it would be something to add in this region or to fuse with other resistance ?

The wheel with life gain on kill and mana leech is also something not so interesting and has to be buff somehow to make it more attractive. The 1% life leech is nice but the 2 node around it does give me the envy to go for it.

The damage wheel just under it is also not so attractive. The damage bonus are low compare to other nodes. The link between the not so good wheel above it and this one make in my point of view, an horrible route to take.

The elemental adaption node is a good node for end game but I don't think it is really attractive for new player as they underestimate most of the time those 2%. Maybe a little buff ? or the maximum +2% give at the same +2% too ? maybe give also chaos resistance ?

I think Staves/Staff nodes have to be buff in general, the bonus per node looks like a bit low. I would also give them the same name everywhere as staves and staff is pretty confusing for new player.

The bottom route

I really like this route. As I started playing poe, I took this route almost everytime as I wanted to make as much dps as possible. We need anyway to realise that without life it is impossible to survive. That's why I would add some life node in this direction or combine damage node with life somehow. The first node from the duelist is life + damage, I would have saw this kind of node more by the maradeur actually rather than by the duelist...

Before the release, I read that their will be improvement around the versatility node. I was really desapointed with the 2 new node behind versatility actually. I would have imagine a buff to the node itself and have this mana reduction directly in the node, not somehting extra to take behind it. I still hope this now, I think the meaning of versatility would have been to have the possibility to touch a lot different thing that is not the main purpose of the maraudeur. I would then add in the versatility node the mana cost reduction. I would also add other bonus in it that are not the maraudeur speciality. Be carefull, not something too powerfull, but I think the meaning of versatility would be fullfill here. It would also make the node more attractive also.

I really like the new node armour + life. I hope you will add some kind of those node everywhere in the tree !

Under unwaring stance there this damage wheel for 2H weapon. The first node is horrible. You need to take this node to enter the wheel to have the nice nodes behind it. I always have the feeling loosing 1 skill point in this stun node. I would combine it in an other node as the stun duration node are really build specific. I would wish also more node about general damage, not weapon specific.

When we are speaking about damage, why not creating new type of node adding any kind of flat damage ? +4 physical or +4 fire damage etc.... I could also imagine a node like this, +5 flat damage and +10 % physical damage.

I would like to see too a way to go through those wheel to the bottom line. At the moment, you need to go around all of them and come from the other side to reach the mace node for example. A direct acces from the top would give also nice possibility.

I offen take the 2 life node that are there, but it look likes we just put them here as we did not know exactly what to put here...

The bottom left of the starting tree, next to blood magic look like to me that you did not exactly knew how you could fill the tree here. It looks like there no logic in it. I think those passive here need to be somehow reorder.

The blood magic node is nice and easy to understand. Unfortunatly, for most of the player, taking this key stone involve that you will not use any aura end game. There is a nice thread about this and I invite people to read it (http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/591042) In my opinion, blood magic should be rework to be more usuable with aura.


Don't know if you read everything til here. To adapt and change the tree, according to all the wish of all player will be a difficult work. Some will be happy, other not. If I had to choose only 1 thing for me, it would be the reworking my favorite keystone --> blood magic.

Anyway, it will involve to rework the form of the tree too, and impose change in some node. The new tree form and idea that will be put there is THE THING I really enjoy !

thx for reading and hope it helps somehow

PS : do you have an idea when you want to make this ?

I did already mention that a Scion is probably a better start for a melee mace guy right?

Since the red zone isn't awash in IAS, Harrier is a pretty decent take. Whatever the Marauder's root is changed to, its got to be as good or better than 5%ias+1.2%movement speed per point spent.

Or the Scion needs to take a beating. It goes without saying, but every starting zone has to be a place that you'd want to be for grognards to be okay with it.

In my humble opinion, Marauder would be much more interesting if they had a less blatant focus on big/bountiful %life and %damage numbers, and instead provided a focus on building a huge amount of strength. Since str provides both life and pdps, it can be supplemented into just about every node in Mara's start as a hybrid [lower life%] + [5-15] strength, [lower % phys damage] + [5-15] strength, and something like [2-3]% increased strength on each starter node, with [4-6]% increased strength 2-3 nodes after that, and generally better str nodes in the 2H branch than in the 1H branch. This would (besides giving some offensive bonus while speccing defense, or some defensive bonus while speccing offense) encourage a much more solid dual-path/core build and offer a greater degree of versatility in Mara's two niche builds: Iron Grip and Iron Will.

Basically, I'm asking that Mara's core identity be shifted more towards strength, rather than 2h melee. 2h melee would still be the primary focus of his identity, as he can build a much more significant str value by speccing 2h (or 1h) melee, which would otherwise be irrelevant to IG/IW.

Also, there's a lot of heat towards RT for failing to offer an appropriate drawback for its benefit. If something must be done with this keystone, I'd recommend leaving it mechanically as is, but changing its position with Blood Magic. Not much explanation should be necessary.

So far as BMK being underwhelming (aura meta) I'd recommend a leech-rate cap increase node or two behind the keystone. Two places where I think leech-rate cap needs to be passively enabled are in the marauder tree, and in the shadow/claw tree. These each have some passive focus on life leech, and it makes no sense for either of them to rely on a quality but redundant skill gem to make leech more useful.

Marauder certainly has some mana problems, but that is also why BM is part of his identity. I would not recommend %mana or %mana regen, but instead better life gained on hit nodes coupled with mana gained on kill. Possibly some flat mana regenerated per second (like clarity) and an aura cluster that reduces reservation costs by a flat amount, rather than by a percentage (as to make clarity more viable for a smaller mana pool, if not going BM). Imo, Mara's mana solutions should come from speccing reduced mana cost, small but efficient flat regen, and mana on kill.

Edit: if you see an exclamation point in the middle of a sentence, it's because autocorrect is a degenerate asshole.

Top route is not bad.
-The initial life nodes are great.
-The armour nodes are also good, though I agree that the "+2% Movement Speed" should be changed to "Ignore Movement Penalties From Armour."
-The crit reduction and flask nodes should at least be swapped, or better yet merged with surrounding notables or removed entirely.
-The Diamond Skin cluster is strong, but I feel is laid out kind of backwards. In most cases I would just grab the notable and leave. It also might have too many nodes, so maybe put the Diamond Skin notable behind 2-3 6% Resist All nodes or one of each resist type.

Bottom path is ugly and I don't know why I would ever go that route.
-The initial One/Two-Handed Accuracy nodes should change to damage nodes.
-Remove the path between the 2nd and 3rd "10% Increased Melee Physical Damage" nodes and change the latter into a notable of some sort.
-Move the Versatility cluster up a bit and use it as a bridge between the top and bottom paths, something I feel is sorely missing (look at every other class).
-The Stun Duration and Shield nodes feel weak outside a build specializing in those stats, a poor choice for a starting area. I would put more generally useful stuff here like a choice between IAS, crit chance/multiplier for those that don't want RT, and/or Life Leech (move Blood Drinker and add a couple leech/life on kill nodes?).

Heading up to Templar I'd take the long way around, by Elemental Adaptation, Resolute Technique, then in through the Atheticism life cluster. This also take me right by a number of reasonably strong weapon specific nodes that I could pick up if I desired. The other options are weak Staff nodes, weak One-Handed Weapon nodes, or basic stats. I would only ever do this if for some reason I wanted to take Marauder, Templar, and Scion Life nodes ASAP and sacrifice any ability to actually kill things.

The path down to Duelist looks pretty solid. The top route is all stat nodes, but I guess it gets you there faster. Going down gets you any of Lava Lash, Blood Drinker, Iron Grip, fire damage, or a variety of weapon nodes.

I'd also like to see the assorted +crit nodes gain some nice attack rating bonuses also, some flat and percentage based. As it is right now with the typical STR weapons having very low crit it takes a LOT of nodes in crit chance, crit dmg, AND accuracy to make it worth bypassing Resolute Technique. Which of course is why almost everyone just takes RT and calls it good.

I'd like to see the RT path extended so you get a diverging path - one with the existing RT that gates off some decent DPS nodes (attack SPEED would be perfect, since it can be hard for maras to get) and another that does the opposite of RT that makes the damage spikier, something like 33% LESS accuracy rating, 33% MORE chance to crit & crit damage that gates off some nice global crit/accuracy nodes.

I'd also really, really encourage you to look at creating an armor circle. Templar for example gets some awesome armor+ES circles and notables, there are good evasion and evasion+armor nodes. But if you're stacking armor there's very little for you in the mara area, which makes zero sense with armor being the STR aligned defensive stat and mara being the pure STR class. Heck, Duelist has better straight armor options close in with Riddle of Steel and Steelskin circles both being 50+% in the area, one of which also has a bit of life. With IR right there also Duelist is flat out better as an armor stacking char and that's just dumb.

Imho, Marauder needs:

* these +10 str nodes in the lower half removed. He is the only one in this game who has to work with that stuff.

* some kind of link between upper and lower half

* some of the uglier nodes removed or at least put aside from main way. 0,4% life regen, 12% accuracy, reduced crit and flask life, those should be avoidable.

* a better way to get out of the starting zone for onehanders. If I sit at "Raw Power", I have to go through 3 +10 str nodes to get out, or through the shield stuff (even if I want that, I then sit at a position where I have to further invest in +10 str nodes to get to a good exit point)

---

* no attackspeed. I find it kinda ok that he's supposed to hit hard, but slow. If you want attackspeed, you know where to find it.

* no Manastuff like Ranger/Duelist. Same as above, you will find it somewhere in the tree if you need.

* Purity of Essence imho can stay. I don't consider it part of Marauder start anyway.

---

To satisfy me completly, the marauder start would be:

*upper way: Life, Regen, Resist, Strength, Blood Magic
*lower way: damage, armor, Resolute Technique

To buff the Marauder, I'd put the 2 Keystones into or closer to his start.

"

Peterlerock написал:

To satisfy me completly, the marauder start would be:

*upper way: Life, Regen, Resist, Strength, Blood Magic
*lower way: damage, armor, Resolute Technique

To buff the Marauder, I'd put the 2 Keystones into or closer to his start.

Moving RT closer to the Marauder start just makes an already-overused node that much more of a no-brainer. How about encouraging diversity instead? Move that 2-handed critical node that's up toward the Templar right into the Marauder start & beef it up with some damage+life nodes. There's plenty of room to do this if you kick out the stun stuff and the totally unnecessary STR taxation that seems to plague the bottom half of the start zone.

Other comments:

* Why is there a total wasteland north of the the main Marauder life-regen-resist path? Would it really hurt to have something worth getting in there? Seems like any Marauder wanting to access the Templar area goes via the outer edge (grabbing RT along the way of course).

* The current configuration Raw Power and Butchery seems reversed. Shouldn't the one-handed stuff lead toward the duellist? A dual wield Marauder has a very ugly path out of the bottom half of the start area. If discouraging dual wield is by design, okay, then make the bottom half entirely focused on 1h+shield vs 2h paths and drop the other crap in there.

* The ring with Purity of Essence is a) taking up valuable real estate and b) has some awful nodes. If this ring has some special niche value, people will seek it out wherever you put it. Bring something of more general use in there... or at least remove/improve the feeble Life Gain on Killing Blow / Life Gain on Hit stuff.

Thanks for all the great feedback in this thread. I am about to desticky it, as I will not be checking it much past this point, and many of the changes are in the process of being made.

"

Qarl написал:

Thanks for all the great feedback in this thread. I am about to desticky it, as I will not be checking it much past this point, and many of the changes are in the process of being made.

So the changes will came in the 1.1.0 mini-expansion?