Another Game of the Year Award

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karwingz7 написал:

Pathetic how some people on this planet are in complete denial...

They would be in denial if they were ignoring actual facts. What is pathetic is that some people think that their bad impressions about the game are facts and so they have to be more than vocal about it. "Drop rates suck in PoE" is not a fact. "Standarized crafting is better" is not a fact. "Dsync is bad" is a fact.

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Morgoth2356 написал:

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karwingz7 написал:

Pathetic how some people on this planet are in complete denial...

They would be in denial if they were ignoring actual facts. What is pathetic is that some people think that their bad impressions about the game are facts and so they have to be more than vocal about it. "Drop rates suck in PoE" is not a fact. "Standarized crafting is better" is not a fact. "Dsync is bad" is a fact.

It is a pretty clear fact that orb drop rates are bad, bad for the game, bad for crafting, bad for retention.

Now, whether there is denial, or ignorance, I don't know. Probably both.

Thing is, it's OK for people who love trading to accumulate the masses of mid tier orbs required for mapping to say drop rates are fine, because it works for them, at the moment.

It's OK for people who love trading to accumulate the large amount of high tier orbs required for crafting to say drop rates are fine, because it works for them, at the moment.

It's OK saying this game is niche, it is only supposed to satisfy the niche few, in the two examples above and racing.

OK, that is, until you put some thought into it. Let's take the amount of orbs used in mapping. If you are going to be using 50? 100? times the amount of orbs that you actually pick up off of the ground or get from vendor recipes from ingredients you pick up off of the ground, per x time; then each and every one of the niche mappers require 50 to 100 players who ARE NOT THAT NICHE to support their mapping. Or bots/RMT.

Now, let's take the amount of orbs used in crafting. This is where it really gets to the point. Your niche crafter, your high end crafter, your eternal-auger, eternal-regaler, eternal-exalter. If you are going to use a shit ton of eternals, just how many people do you think are required to support this? Giving my example of 1 eternal dropping in 4000 hours of monster killing post eternal introduction, let's say I'm about to drop another, let's say that one that dropped 2000 hours ago and 2000 hours post eternal introduction gives the average of 2000 hours of monster killing per eternal drop.

Every single eternal your niche crafter uses, is 2000 man hours killing monsters by players who ARE NOT THAT NICHE.

But wait, how can this be a niche game, if the niche it pleases requires so many non-niche players to feed the orbs?

Answer? It can't. It can, and will, fold.
The model GGG chose fails at retention in so many ways.

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Sa_Re написал:

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Boem написал:

How many hour's / character levels did it take you to get the nemesis challenge?

1 lvl 61 character :D? lmao..... :p

I got all but the unique item drop one till act 3 cruel in the one week race (and then died lol). I don't know how rare the missing mod is though.

how in the hell is that even possible...youd have to do a ton of maps just to get all the unique bosses... i have multiple level 50 chars, a couple 60s, a 70, and i still only have 1 challenge completed-im pretty close to 2 of them though, still havent seen an eternal, only seen 2 exalts from ALL leagues put together(one after 500 hours, one from this race) and of course im not going to use my only current exalt on a rare for a challenge-i need gear... dont get me wrong, thats amazing if true, but did i misunderstand you? :/

but the missing mod...inner treasure...i see that fairly often; its rare though, and even more rare to get a decent drop from it...usually a crown of thorns or broadstroke or something :P still, a guaranteed unique is always cool.

and im *mostly* fine with the extreme rarity of high-tier orb drops, divines/exalted/eternals etc are meant for your endgame gear so yeah it should be very rare...but still, you shouldnt have to roll 6 mid-high level chars to see one, which youll either spend or use on one item, for one character, for one *random* affix (with a 'yolo' exalt)...maybe they drop better in maps, or maybe drops are meant to be worse in nem (explains the lack of quantity affix) which is where i mainly play, idk.

as far as what someone said about RMT-ers earlier in the thread: i dont know if theres any sort of issue with banning them, if theres any sort of reluctance or hesitance when it comes to "what to do" with those who are found out, but i imagine to some degree there would be. this game is free though, so in cases where you have clear, defined evidence, i dont think the community would have any problem seeing a few perma-bans on those deserving (again, with proof). as opposed to a game which isnt free...at an extreme a legal issue could arise between someone who is banned from using a product that they payed for...(im thinking of say, a fps like counter-strike where this issue was circumvented by cheating players being VAC-banned, meaning they were banned from playing on VAC-secure servers -which most players tend to prefer- but could still play on other servers. so they still have access to the product they spent their $ on) but in this case...its a free game...if theyre cheating or RMT-ing and you have proof, *exile* them without hesitation-you have that right and authority. if they payed for a microtransaction, then cheated...consider it a donation. but the rules should be explicit (not just on poe's site, but even on the login screen.) so that really no arguement can be put forth from them once caught.

that said, i do really enjoy the game. ive donated upwards of $50 so far and would love to see it continue to succeed, but just because its seen full release and won a couple (deserved) awards clearly doesnt mean that every little thing is ideal, and if some of the major issues are resolved, with the undeniable strength of the underlying game, poe wont have any competition.

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TheAnuhart написал:

It is a pretty clear fact that orb drop rates are bad, bad for the game, bad for crafting, bad for retention.

Now, whether there is denial, or ignorance, I don't know. Probably both.

Thing is, it's OK for people who love trading to accumulate the masses of mid tier orbs required for mapping to say drop rates are fine, because it works for them, at the moment.

It's OK for people who love trading to accumulate the large amount of high tier orbs required for crafting to say drop rates are fine, because it works for them, at the moment.

It's OK saying this game is niche, it is only supposed to satisfy the niche few, in the two examples above and racing.

OK, that is, until you put some thought into it. Let's take the amount of orbs used in mapping. If you are going to be using 50? 100? times the amount of orbs that you actually pick up off of the ground or get from vendor recipes from ingredients you pick up off of the ground, per x time; then each and every one of the niche mappers require 50 to 100 players who ARE NOT THAT NICHE to support their mapping. Or bots/RMT.

Now, let's take the amount of orbs used in crafting. This is where it really gets to the point. Your niche crafter, your high end crafter, your eternal-auger, eternal-regaler, eternal-exalter. If you are going to use a shit ton of eternals, just how many people do you think are required to support this? Giving my example of 1 eternal dropping in 4000 hours of monster killing post eternal introduction, let's say I'm about to drop another, let's say that one that dropped 2000 hours ago and 2000 hours post eternal introduction gives the average of 2000 hours of monster killing per eternal drop.

Every single eternal your niche crafter uses, is 2000 man hours killing monsters by players who ARE NOT THAT NICHE.

But wait, how can this be a niche game, if the niche it pleases requires so many non-niche players to feed the orbs?

Answer? It can't. It can, and will, fold.
The model GGG chose fails at retention in so many ways.

That's a very interesting point. I think the 4-months leagues and the new acts can counter that, but who knows.

and still no answer. LOL.

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ToxicRatt написал:

and still no answer. LOL.

Brian didn't even apologize for his remarks I doubt any kind of answer is in the works. This thread probably become officially dead the minute he made that post because if anyone else made that post mods would have removed it.

Some snippage.

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TheAnuhart написал:

It is a pretty clear fact that orb drop rates are bad, bad for the game, bad for crafting, bad for retention.

Now, whether there is denial, or ignorance, I don't know. Probably both.


But wait, how can this be a niche game, if the niche it pleases requires so many non-niche players to feed the orbs?

Answer? It can't. It can, and will, fold.
The model GGG chose fails at retention in so many ways.

The number of orb drops and the chances that the orbs will craft a usable item are somewhat out of balance. (Not quite enough orbs)

Crafting a high end item, and the number of orb drops is not not enough if you are trying to do this on a regular basis.

Crafting a top end item, and you will probably need an entire season's worth of orbs on average to get there.

The higher you go on these crafting tiers, the bigger the "luck" factor can be.

Does crafting need to be improved? Yes - with some additional targeted crafting recipes and the middle range and slightly above. Recipes with more than a single mod.


The "niche" that this game appeals to, does not "require" any crafting to succeed in. If crafting were required to succeed, there would be problems.

Judging by past experience, what would benefit the crafters and all the people wanting better drops the most would be Act 4.

Before act 3, there was no alchemy recipe, nor fusing, chance, scour or regret recipe. 6 linking items was still possible, but fusings were in much greater demand.

The Eternal orb is relatively new, and it is intended to be a very expensive way to allow do -overs to try to get the mods you want. Before the eternal orb, it wasn't possible to use more than 4 (usually 3) exalts on an item.

If GGG adds in more vendor currency recipes and higher level areas (especially a higher level act boss) than people will naturally have a lot more to craft with and a better base of items to start with.

As long as we keep the posts civil and constructive, then GGG can gather feedback from them and make changes to the game as necessary.

If you have specific suggestions for improvement, than by all means post.

I sincerely doubt GGG will make the game easier or shower players with great items in a short period of time.

That doesn't mean they can't and won't find ways to make the game more rewarding for players.

Ideas and suggestions will do a much better job at getting there, than repeatedly pointing out the same dislikes.

YES ! Keep em coming :).

Hi

People play games to relax not for ''item tension'', 15 minutes are up whats next? Being forced to trade after lvl 60+ because player will go through full inventory after full inventory full of crap for what? Oh to trade in a super inflated bullshit trade system that takes a run at pretending to be the matrix code flashing cross your screen. Its like 1:50 items is semi decent and then its like is it exalt worthy? FUCK NO. Save my exalts and buy me something that is exactly what I want or spin the mostly shit RNG wheel of mods? Crafting.... Pick up a dictionary and read the definition before you spout this crap as being a major part of the game about as major as TRADING? I DON'T THINK SO.

GET OFF YOUR LAURELS AND READ WHAT YOUR FANS ARE ACTUALLY WRITING!





cheers

wow GGG owned that guy lying about not find an exalt for realz. that made my day.