Stop spreading the Evasion vs Armor fallacy
" This isn't the right way to do it. You want 160% or so life. Then around the same time you get Grace you want to start building in +%evasion rating. Now, you have a few reasonable choices. 50% incr evasion rating in the ranger start area, and either 50% per each half of the reflexes circle you buy up, or 70% per half. That is, one reflexes node is enough; you don't need 170%. Stop with evasion bonuses after you buy Reflexes. With 110% from passives, and 60% from dex, your total is 170%. The way diminishing returns work on evasion rating, you don't really want to stack it to the sky. Just get a reasonably high amount and be done with it. 7 passives spent on evasion, 18 points spent on life. Plenty to spend still on offense. sample ranger template here. -- I don't have alpha access, that was a LONG time ago. Последняя редакция: Zakaluka#1191. Время: 8 февр. 2013 г., 05:42:41
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Thanks, that sounds good, I didn't take my dex into account. I'll try playing around with a build that goes along those lines. I was seriously going for iron reflexes before, what with most people around chat and seeing builds make a beeline for it all the time, I assumed the worst with my original idea to go eva.
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" Although Stun is a problem, you are not very likely to get stunlocked. First you should have tons of HP making Stuns less likely and second hard hitters will barely hit you enough to perform a stunlock. Also a funny thing most people seem to forget is that Evasion protects you from elemental damage too. A lot of enemies in the game attack with at least partial elemental damage which isn't reduced by armor. So even if armor can reduce the amount of physical damage delivered with such a hit evasion is able to also nullify the elemental-part of the attack. So in general evasion is in a very good shape, it might be true that considering pure physical damage armor would allow for less max-hp exspecially with endurance-charges, but since there are a lot of other threats you need sufficient HP with both builds if you want to avoid death. I'm not totally sure, but constructs and snakes should use projectile-attacks which makes evasion-builds with arrow-dodging very efficient against them. |
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Vaal Constructs are using a spell, so that'll still hit :( I'm not sure on the Chaos spittin snakes, but the construct spell thing was something that came up in CB.
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" I can confirm that they have a projectile attack (the snakes in act2 and the worm-snake things in act3 slums and marketplace). I have 86% evasion against projectiles and I get hit by every 5th to 6th attack. best regards Hold on to yer shite load o´ bloody barnacles on me arse-cockles, me hearty! IGN: Trapsdrubel Последняя редакция: Azdrubel#6242. Время: 8 февр. 2013 г., 09:59:49
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" Actually it appears they have changed the Vaal Construct projectiles into attacks. I tested this with my Arrow Dodging Duelist and he could stand next to a bunch without getting hit at all. This would not be the case if they were spells. -Ropetus Author of Build of the Week #11: PalavaKostaja - Righteous Fire Marauder
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" Oh hooray, that was annoying :) I'm glad it got changed. |
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The fact that evasion is very good on paper, yet is underused ingame might point to the fact that the Problem isn't evasion itself, but something that is commonly associated with evasion builds.
By the looks of it, what really makes armor more powerful is that armor gear and passives are all associated with strength, which in turn is associated with HP (str gives HP, armor nodes are closer to good HP nodes). HP is what everyone needs, so while mechanically, evasion is stronger, the meta-interaction of armour and strength gives the false impression that evasion itself is weak. In fact it is Dexterity that is weak both as a stat and as an area in the passive tree. |
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Jepp getting armor + hp together in one place is propably easier than getting HP + evasion together. Although the situation greatly improved. What is actually missing in the Dex-Part of the tree is regeneration, which actually is one of the core-parts of most HC Builds since in the end Evasion and Armor-Builds need to work around Chaos-Damage which still is a large threat to both.
So some HP-Reg nodes in the Dex-Part would be nice I guess, since it seems one of the reasons why people go to the strength part of the tree. |
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" Interestingly, Enfeeble works extremely strongly against a lot of the weaknesses of a pure armor/Endurance Charge setup in a couple of different ways. On the low end, attacks that are already mitigation capped can be reduced further - a 100 damage threat when you have 12k armor is at 90% mitigation baseline, but level 1 Enfeeble can reduce the damage taken from 10 to 7.5. It has a similar effect on high damage attacks, with level 1 Enfeeble being stronger at dealing with those than even five Endurance Charges when you take into account the crit chance/value reductions. Math proof:
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Assume 12,000 armor, 8,000 threatened damage, 5% base mob crit rate, 150% base mob crit multiplier, over 10,000 swings. Comparison is solely mitigating impact of level 1 Enfeeble (-25% damage dealt) versus 5 Endurance charges, all other factors being equal (meaning I'm not going to bother modeling things that affect both sides of the comparison like the base 5% evasion rate, evading criticals, Marauder crit damage reduction passives, etc). I use 'threat' to refer to the result of all calculations local to the mob, and dealt/received to refer to the actual number removed from your health/ES. Per threat, non-crit: Base damage resistance is 12000 / (12000 + 12*8000) = 11.1% (repeating, of course) Endurance charge modified damage resistance is 11.1% + 25% = 36.1% Damage received is (1-36.1%) * 8000 = 5,111 Reduced threat by level 1 Enfeeble is 8000*.75 = 6000 Damage resistance is 12000 / (12000 + 12*6000) = ~14.3% Damage received is (1-14.3%) * 6000 = 5,143 Per threat, crit: Base threat increases to 8,000 and 4,000 additional crit damage = 12000 Base damage resistance is 12000 / (12000 + 12*12000) = ~7.7% Endurance charge modified damage resistance is ~7.7% + 25% = ~32.7% Damage received is (1-7.7%) * 12000 = 8,076 Reduced threat by level 1 Enfeeble is (I think) (8000 + 4000*.8)*.75 = 8,400 Damage resistance is 12000 / (12000 + 12*8400) = 10.6% Damage received is (1-10.6%) * 8400 = 7,506 Over 10,000 swings: Base crit rate provides 9,500 regular hits and 500 critical hits. With 5 endurance charges, this averages ((9500*5111)+(500*8076)) / 10,000 swings = ~5,259 per swing Enfeeble reduces the 5% base crit rate by 20% to a 4% crit rate 9,600 regular hits and 400 critical hits This averages to ((9600*5143)+(400*7506)) / 10,000 swings = ~5,237 per swing In the mid range, 5 endurance charges certainly win out. That's the nature of additive bonuses to a multiplier; when they're pushing you near to the 90% cap, each +1% reduction provides massively greater benefit (for example, with the above math and 500 threatened, enfeeble reduces it to ~102 while 5 ECs reduce it to 50). Now, if you take both endurance charges and Enfeeble, they work to each other's strengths (more math):
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Same assumptions.
Per threat, non-crit: Reduced threat by level 1 Enfeeble is 8000*.75 = 6000 Damage resistance is 12000 / (12000 + 12*6000) = ~14.3% Endurance charge modified damage resistance is ~14.3% + 25% = ~39.3% Damage received is (1-39.3%) * 6000 = 3,643 Per threat, crit: Reduced threat by level 1 Enfeeble is (I think) (8000 + 4000*.8)*.75 = 8,400 Damage resistance is 12000 / (12000 + 12*8400) = ~10.6% Endurance charge modified damage resistance is ~10.6% + 25% = ~35.6% Damage received is (1-35.6%) * 8400 = 5,406 Over 10,000 swings: Enfeeble reduces the 5% base crit rate by 20% to a 4% crit rate 9,600 regular hits and 400 critical hits (9600*3646)+(400*5406) = lots lots / 10,000 = an average of ~3,713 per swing Most importantly using this setup, crit spike damage drops from 7.5-8k per crit down to 5.4k per crit. This is a HUGE impact on your chance to be oneshot; throwing a level 1 enfeeble gem in a spare blue slot (in this situation) is worth as much oneshot insurance as over 2,000 HP (minus whatever you're losing by changing your curse). A pure armor build that doesn't run Enfeeble is ignoring more physical mitigation than if they just ignored endurance charges (for max ECs < 6, though even at 6 its arguable when you expand the scope beyond solely physical mitigation). |
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