Damage reflection is death for witches

I think this mechanic has caused more problems than it has solved. Pre 0.9.3, was everyone enjoying PoE? Pretty much. Were there complaints about Witch being the uber class? Sure. About AOE spam being cheesy? Of course. But this solution is inelegant, and has the potential for having too much impact on game play and fun.

Anecdotal evidence indicates that Damage Reflection, particularly for ranged characters, is often unavoidable (offscreen mobs with aura, for example). This makes playing the game a crapshoot, in which one is always at some risk of being fatally spanked for playing the game in the style which they enjoy. If you want to play an AOE spam Witch, you shouldn't have to spend all of your time in play paranoid about running into a Reflection aura mob. Likewise, a Marauder oughtn't have to have some back-up non-physical attack available just to handle just one certain type of mob.

I fear that this mechanic is gonna turn the game into a sweat-fest, particularly in higher difficulties. Wasn't PoE challenging enough in Cruel, for instance, not to have this aura with which to contend constantly? Though I have never played a HC character (in D2, since I have yet to actually play PoE), I can understand the frustration at this of those who do.

Some of the comments have been along the lines of, "Suck it up or go play with the Care Bears" in tone, but PoE can't just cater to the "do-or-die" types, or it will lose much of its broad appeal. If every play session runs an increasing risk of encountering something which could, potentially, insta-kill a character, then that element is going to dominate game play, in terms of character builds and even mood. And before anyone mentions that Elemental resistances now apply to reflected damage, is it really desirable to force players to seek out increased resistances JUST to counter this one mechanic?

Don't let Damage Reflection become the tail that wags the PoE dog.

PoE should be challenging, even grim, but this mechanic is gonna turn some casual players off, and kill a lot of the excitement for the game. I'm already wondering if I'm gonna have as much fun at higher levels, once I get in to play, and the fact that this is quashing some of my enthusiasm is NOT a good sign.

Plenty of suggestions have been made for ways to modify this aura; why not try a few of them? If they still don't work, then scrap it, and find some other way (if it is even truly necessary) to encourage a more varied play style (not discourage one which has been part of PoE's popularity from the beginning). Keep PoE fast-paced and fun, instead of a landmine-strewn vista of characters gingerly tip-toeing across the landscape. Let folks play as they like, cheesy or no. There are plenty of risks and challenges out there without using a monster aura to enforce a play style which, simply put, isn't as much fun. ='[.]'=

P.S: If the devs really want to challenge players, high-resistance aura mobs should be plenty of fun, as they were in D2. They negate the impact of spammers using their particular element, without being terminally challenging, and can potentially be beaten with some build flexibility, without demanding so much of a build investment. =^[.]^=

Personally, I have a lot more fun fighting elemental reflection auras than I do elemental resistance auras. Resistances on enemies is far cheesier than reflection; it's just like adding more health (or more armor vs. physical), which just makes the fight take a little longer.

When I see a reflection aura, I think "This is going to be challenging, trying to kill that thing without killing myself." When I see a resistance aura, I just think "This is going to take slightly longer than normal."

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WhiteBoy88 написал:

Personally, I have a lot more fun fighting elemental reflection auras than I do elemental resistance auras. Resistances on enemies is far cheesier than reflection; it's just like adding more health (or more armor vs. physical), which just makes the fight take a little longer.

When I see a reflection aura, I think "This is going to be challenging, trying to kill that thing without killing myself." When I see a resistance aura, I just think "This is going to take slightly longer than normal."

Oh, I don't disagree with how you approach this; I just have a problem, as a casual player, with having to wonder when my "number" is gonna come up. But I remember the challenge of having to find work-arounds in D2 against resistant mobs. I didn't like it, but it was rewarding to have beat them on my "B" game.

And it's the Reflection Aura you don't see that kills ya. In fact, that might even be a mitigating fix: Auras might only work against characters which have detected the enchanted mob, i.e., have been in graphic contact with some member of the pack with a visible aura. =^[.]^=

Mkay, tried 75% Fire Resist.

Killing individual monsters is no longer a dramatic time sink, but its still not worth the trouble on large packs.

I can actually overpower Energy Shield + Resist All + Life Regeneration combos faster than a single pack of Elemental Reflect.

I do see how, if I upgraded all my base items to high quality level 50+, I would have enough Energy Shield to actually kill these guys at a bearable killing speed.

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konfeta написал:

at a bearable killing speed.

See, this is the problem right here.

As a witch/ranger you're used to blasting through entire packs of mobs with 5 spell casts. When you can't do this and have to slow down to an "unbearable killing speed" you're actually fighting at the speed that all melee characters play at THE ENTIRE GAME.

This is the problem and why I don't see an issue. If you can't be bothered to slow down for 25% of boss fights and take your time then you deserve to die to reflects.

You may have to place your AOEs on the edge of a pack to only hit one at a time, and quaff health potions every few hits..then run off and charge your energy shield. Just because witches and rangers don't WANT to, doesn't mean it's any less of a valid tactic. The game should not be made easier because of lazy players.

Stop being lazy.

PS: The only time I think reflects are an issue is when your spell hits something by traveling off of the screen onto a mob you did not know was there. This is not cool. However, a boss wandering into your firestorm or rain of arrows is your fault.

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Ixath написал:

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konfeta написал:

at a bearable killing speed.

See, this is the problem right here.

As a witch/ranger you're used to blasting through entire packs of mobs with 5 spell casts. When you can't do this and have to slow down to an "unbearable killing speed" you're actually fighting at the speed that all melee characters play at THE ENTIRE GAME.

This is the problem and why I don't see an issue. If you can't be bothered to slow down for 25% of boss fights and take your time then you deserve to die to reflects.

You may have to place your AOEs on the edge of a pack to only hit one at a time, and quaff health potions every few hits..then run off and charge your energy shield. Just because witches and rangers don't WANT to, doesn't mean it's any less of a valid tactic. The game should not be made easier because of lazy players.

Stop being lazy.

PS: The only time I think reflects are an issue is when your spell hits something by traveling off of the screen onto a mob you did not know was there. This is not cool. However, a boss wandering into your firestorm or rain of arrows is your fault.

+1 to you sir. If only ranged characters could feel the pain that melee characters endure in this game.

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fiftysixk написал:

+1 to you sir. If only ranged characters could feel the pain that melee characters endure in this game.

Let me propose an alternative solution: improve the power of melee characters.

I think we would be too powerful once we can hit the higher (70s and 80s) levels if we were increased too much.

I think giving witches a homing single target high damage spell and fixing the small aoes melees have would be a good solution.

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ee, this is the problem right here.

As a witch/ranger you're used to blasting through entire packs of mobs with 5 spell casts. When you can't do this and have to slow down to an "unbearable killing speed" you're actually fighting at the speed that all melee characters play at THE ENTIRE GAME.

This is the problem and why I don't see an issue. If you can't be bothered to slow down for 25% of boss fights and take your time then you deserve to die to reflects.

You may have to place your AOEs on the edge of a pack to only hit one at a time, and quaff health potions every few hits..then run off and charge your energy shield. Just because witches and rangers don't WANT to, doesn't mean it's any less of a valid tactic. The game should not be made easier because of lazy players.

Stop being lazy.

PS: The only time I think reflects are an issue is when your spell hits something by traveling off of the screen onto a mob you did not know was there. This is not cool. However, a boss wandering into your firestorm or rain of arrows is your fault.

That's all very cute and all, but damage reflection doesn't make you play less lazily, it makes you play at a slower pace. There is no real counter-play that allows you to input greater skill to beat this faster. You slow down your damage or you die. Period. Resistances alleviate the issue, but they do not solve it.

I already played at maximum capacity for 'not being lazy' in this game - at the apex of my build before further optimization naturally drove the usefulness of supporting abilities out of my skill roster, I used:

1. Three curses.
2. Three different attacks.
3. Phase Run.
4. Ice Wall.
5. Summons.
6. Intentionally putting my self into greater danger by running behind the enemy packs to ensure there is no elemental reflection and to round up packs of enemies into tight balls to improve my killing speed.

No it doesn't. Skip the mobs alltogether. That speeds it up tremendously. You don't have to waste time killing them then.